Occitan in Duolingo!
ADIEU-SIATZ BRAVE MONDE!!
I've been learning Occitan for a while now (since February 2015) and, even though I don't see myself contributing for an Occitan course at the moment (maybe sometime in the future if my knowledge of the languages improves), I'd like to know if there's anyone interested in an Occitan course.
Another thing would be from what language it should be done. Should it be for French speakers or for English speakers (or perhaps for Catalan or Italian speakers)? I, myself, don't speak enough French nor Italian, but I do know English and Catalan.
Most importantly, are there people here at Duolingo that could apply to help in this hypothetical Occitan course? Most Occitan speakers speak either French, Catalan (and Spanish) or Italian, and maybe some of them English too. This should be kept in mind.
Another matter is which standard version we should take for the course since there are various Occitan dialects and some are pretty different form each other. Normally, most people would take the "lengadocian" dialect as the standard model since it's probably one of the most spoken dialects and its located in the center of "Occitània". Furthermore this dialect is mostly understood by all Occitan speakers and many of those who learn it as a second language either learn "lengadocian" or "lengadocian" and their regional dialect ("lemosin", "gascon", "provençau", "lemosin", "vivaro-aupenc" or "auvernhat"). I have only been studying de standard model, "lengadocian", but I know a thing or two about some of the other dialects.
So, let me know what you guys think about this hypothetical Occitan course!!
Mercés a totes!!
E ben, aqueste es lo grand probèma... Jo l'estic estudiant en una associació que es diu CAOC (cercle d'agermanament ocitano-català) que tenen un local a Gràcia (BCN), però també es pot fer el curs a distància. Això sí, s'ha de pagar :)
O mejor puedes desgargar assimil occitano sin esfuerzo con toso y audio: http://www.twirpx.com/about/search/?searchid=139800&text=occitan
La página está en ruso, pero puedes activar google translate para que traduzca. Y también tienes que ingresar tu e-mail, y al link que te mandan y ahí podrás bajarlo. Suerte.
El curs d'occità d'Assimil és molt bo, al menys el dels anys 70, encara no he vist el nou curs.
Jo també voldria aprendre l'occità, només que no trobo el temps per dedicar-hi i a més no tinc tantes oportunitats per utilitzar-lo com amb d'altres llengües (ja no visc a Europa). Tant l'occità com el sard m'interessen força, si algun dia tinc l'oportunitat de passar temps on es parlen, no dubtaré en estudiar-los, però per ara amb el basc ja en tinc prou :P
Bai, duela urte batzuk, baina irakurtzen dudanean oraindik gehienak ulertu ditzaket. :)
Wow! What a streak! Thanks for the interest! Aquò ei çò que nos cal, de monde interessat per l'occitan!
Occitan and Breton are both languages that are on my list of languages to learn.
Raises hand * I'm very interested in Occitan! I was this year in Val d'Aran and I loved it, especially the official protection and spreading of Occitan there. Ibelieve Duolingo should develop courses for regional languages, especially those which are not very protected by local and/or national institutions (for example Breton and Occitan in France).
Thanks! So you've been in la Val d'Aran huh? Did you learn any Aranese? Well, I suppose you did hear some Occitan there, at least ;) I'd really like to go someday to Aran and also to learn its dialect, Aranese!!
Yup this summer! I learnt a couple of words since most of what I heard was Castilian and Catalan unfortunately, but at least almost all signs were in Aranese haha. You should go there, it's amazingly beautiful up there and the people is great.
¿Eres castellano verdad? Sí, hasta ahí el castellano domina más que el catalán... Hay muchas empresas allí y hasta una tercera parte de la población no ha nacido en el valle, es normal que cueste escuchar la lengua propia de los araneses.
Exacto, de Ciudad Real. Sí, esa fue la sensación que me dió, y la gente que vive allí me confirmó eso, que muchos de los que vivían allí eran de fuera.
No te creas, que hay de todo. Pero sí es cierto que se deberían promover todas las lenguas españolas (incluso ibéricas) por todo el estado. Se solucionarían muchos problemas de ignorancia fácilmente de esta manera. La verdad es que chapurreo catalán (entiendo casi todo, eso sí) y me gustaría aprender vasco. Pronto empezaré con el árbol de catalán ya que bastante esfuerzo ha costado que lo traigan a duolingo, pero estoy liado con el ruso por ahora xD
Me gustaría aprender occitan. Estoy estudiante de intercambio en Val d'Aran. En el colegio, no puedo ir a la clase de aranes porque solo hablo castellano e ingles. Aunque el gobierno español no protege esta lengua, las personas araneses si. Tienen dos horas de aranes cada semana en el colegio, y son muy orgullosos de su cultura.
Tu sès professor d'occitan?! Macarèl! Fin finala ai trapat qualqu'un que ne parle aicí! Demòras en Occitania, doncas? Ieu i demòri pas, soi catalan, mès estudii lo lengadocian i a qualque temps.
I like too call Occitan the little sister of French. The languages are so similar but yet so different. I think Occitan for French and Italian would be great and more logical than for English. I hope one we will see Galician !
Yes, Galician would be great! But we should keep in mind that the closest language to Occitan isn't French, but Catalan. These two languages were once the same one, but because of the political borders they grew to become separate languages. That's why they're called twin languages. :)
Non, mais je voudrais un cours de L'Occitan parce que Je voudrais apprendre L'Occitan et c'est un langue qu'est en dangereux dans le sud de la France. J' suis d'accord avec toi avec le premier cours etre pour les gens que parler Francais. Je voudrais que le cours de l'Occitan pouvoir venir en 2016.
It would be very interesting (Jo també sóc català i també sento curiositat per aquesta llengua bessona) but probably, among the other languages of France, Breton and Basque would come first. This is the first time that I have seen a reference to occitan here and I like to see that there is some interest. Mi eniris Duolingon ekde la pasinta monato por fari la arbon de Esperanto kaj mi jxus finis gxin. Nun mi aligos la aliajn fremdajn lingvojn kiujn mi scipovas paroli krom la angla (tio estas: la franca, la itala, la germana). Lingvoj tiel la irlanda aux, se gxi estus tie-cxi, la okcitana estas tre tentaj, sed mi ne volas saturi min, xD.
Yes I love this! I think it should be made for french speakers, and based on what you said, in the lengadocian dialect. I'd also like to learn a language from french!
Here are some monuments that could be used in the official page of the course. Im sure somebody from Occitania could tell us more about it. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occitanie#Monuments
Adishatz monde. Qué soi francés i vivi en bordèu e coneissi pla era gasconha entà eth pireneus. Qu'ei un pais (coma unidat culturau) força bèra mas la lenga non se parla pas pel carrièr e i a poc de joves que la comprendnon. L'influencia dera lenga d'oc qu'èra considerable sus la lenga francesa e uèi s'empleguen forças expressions e paraules de rasiga occitanas en lo francés deth sud dera frança. Malastrosament, l'estat a fach tot ta assemilar e empausar lo monolenguisme dempuei sègles. Hi everyone. I'am french and live in bordeaux and well know gascony up to the pyrenees. It is a beautiful country (as a cultural whole) but the language is no more spoken in the streets and very few young understand it. The influence of the oc language is significant on french language and today lots of expressions and words of occitan root are widely used in the south of france. Unfortunately, the state did everything to assimilate and impose monolinguism since centuries. It is curious that there are more foreigners interested in learning occitan then frenchmen... people here simply don't give a d***.
Il y a un mois on a présenté en Barcelone la nouvelle grammaire de l'Occitan d'Aran et, heureusement, j'ai pu y aller. Grâce à l'officialité de l'occitan en Catalogne on a créé "er Institut d’Estudis Aranesi", qui prendra soin de l'écriture de cette variété du gascon en publiant désormais ses normes. Si la France ne le fait pas, quelqu'un autre doit le faire.
Ah! I foguères? Ieu tanben voliái i anar mas fin finala poguèri pas. Un amic mieu i anèt, çaquelà!
I would take the course. And I love the idea of Duolingo being a platform not only for "world languages", but also for languages spoken by relatively few people, languages that are perhaps in danger of extinction. What a great project!
Yes! I want Occitan! I wish it would be on Duolingo! But I think it would be for French speakers first, since Catalan was created for Spanish speakers first, Occitan would be made for French speakers first since Occitan is mainly spoken in France. Just like Catalan is mainly spoken in Spain. But hopefully one day, we'll get it on Duolingo! Mercés! :D
Òc, se vos plai! I would love to learn it. I agree with UneJamKuqEZi. I think that we should think on how much people we could help, and most of the people that could revive Occitan live in Southern France. Although after that we could have a course for Catalan, Italian, English speakers...
Òc-ben! Vesi que ne sabes un pauc, d'occitan! Yes, and it would be of great help to the language itself since it's on its way to disappearing. Tinc el dubte de si hi ha gent aquí al DL que sàpiga occità i que vulgui ajudar en aquest hipotètic curs. Tant de bo n'hi hagi!
Yes, that would be the most logical option, however I don't speak much French, myself, but I'm sure there are other people who can speak both of these languages and would be happy to apply to help in the course. ;-)
That would be great. I'm working my way up the Iberian peninsula with Portuguese, Spanish, and now Catalan. I might even be more interested in French if I could get Occitan. Then after that I'll be able to use French to connect me to the Netherlands Belgium with Dutch. If you make it for French speakers, I would be even more interested in learning French for an exclusive language.
I must share this beautiful music in the Occitan language, it's wonderful, and it makes me sad to see how the french almost destroyed this culture =(
I would love to learn some of the language, but I hope to travel there and learn with the local people =D (if it's even possible to find them...)
Thanks! It may be hard to find people who still speak the language but I assure you that there are people there who are doing all their effort in trying to keep Occitan alive ;)
Does anyone know which cities, towns or villages in the region are the most likely to have a greater number of speakers?
Well, I know that the most spoken dialect is lengadocian, but I couldn't really tell which cities have a greater number of speakers. I think you'll only be able to find native speakers in small town, that is in rural areas, although in some cities there are small groups who are trying to preserve the language (Tolosa, Carcassona, Montpelhièr...). These people don't usually speak Occitan natively, but have learnt it anyway and are now trying to revive their language.
The one place you can find Occitan speakers is in la Val d'Aran, in Catalonia. It's the only place where it's officially recognized, it's one of the three official languages of Catalonia! I have never actually been there, although I live in Catalonia too, but I'm pretty sure you can here Aranese (the local dialect of Occitan) spoken if you pay some attention.
The song is truly beautiful! I think I had listened to it some time ago, but I had forgotten about it, plan mercés!
This absolutely needs to be a thing. There is currently so little material for non French-speakers who want to learn it.
i'm teaching the provençal dialect of occitan in college and i would like to build a occitan-provençal course for french speakers first and maybe for english speakers later. But alone it will be too difficult so if there are other people who wants to join me we can start as soon as possible!!
adessiatz e a ben lèu !!
Je serai aussi intéressé pour aider à faire le cours en Occitan (depuis le FR ou l'EN). Ma langue maternelle est le dialecte languedocien de Pézenas grâce à mes grands parents.
I would love to help build the Occitan course (from French or English) even though i have no idea how to do. My native language is the Occitan dialect 'lengadocian' from Pezenas town thanks to my granparents who kept speaking it between eachother but not to my mom nor her kids.
Ieu, seriái mai que mai interessat per ajudar a faire lo corse en Occitan (del frances mas tanben del ingles). Qu'es ma lenga mairala amb lo dialecte lengadocian de Pesenas mercés a mon papeta e ma mameta,
Maybe we can use the best dictionnary for Occitan : https://www.locongres.org/fr/applications/dicodoc-fr/dicodoc-recherche
Occitan is a very interesting language, and I would love to learn some more of it. I can see you've learned quite a bit of Catalan already, which will be helpful, because the two are so similar. Some even consider them dialects of the same language. It is not as commonly spoken as it used to be, so any effort to resuscitate this beautiful language would be appreciated. I would expect it to be for French speakers, at least at first.
Yes, it'd probably be best to do it for French speakers. I also included Catalan because 1-its similarity to Occitan 2-because Occitan is also spoken in Catalonia (and it's only official there) 3-because there are many Catalan speakers that either already speak Occitan or would like to learn it.
Oh cool. I guess I should've figured seeing how far you've gone and how recently the course was released :P
hahaha well a few people are up to that level and aren't native speakers, no worries. How are you doing with Catalan yourself? T'està agradant?
I'm doing pretty good. Of course I'm still early on in the course, but I feel comfortable with it. Funnily enough, my biggest trouble with it is some vocab used in European Spanish that I'm not as familiar with. (e. g. zumo, which I know as jugo)
I've never really seen speakers of Occitan here put up a fight for their language the way speakers of Catalan, Welsh, Finnish, Persian, and so forth have, and until that happens, I'm not sure how much momentum a course could actually end up with. I would love to see some of the French minority languages show up here, but I think any real push for it needs to start in the French discussion section.
Thank you Stacie! I don't speak much French so I don't know what I could do with that. The thing is that Occitan is not only spoken in France (mostly yes, of course). It's also spoken in some Italian Alpine valleys and in la Val d'Aran in Catalonia. Actually Occitan is only official in Catalonia and there are many Catalan speakers that either already speak it or would like to learn it.
Yeah, France's official policy with minority languages is... less than admirable, unfortunately. But if it's going to stand a chance in the future, reviving it where it's most prevalent is the most important first step, I think.
As for the Catalan tree, not done yet! Em falten 15 unitats. =)
Yep, and a Duolingo course would help in reviving this amazing and historical language.
Pensava que ja l'havies acabat, l'arbre, perquè ja estàs al nivell 11 ;)
I sometimes wonder how the world would be different if Catalan & Occitan had not been completely downtrodden. I mean, so far, I've been able to read everything you've written in three different languages... I just looked at the Occitan wikipedia, and I can pretty much read that too. Yet I know not a word.
Why do the French and Spanish governments have so little respect for those languages?
Nah, I mean how different would the world would be if these languages were still strong. I mean I had never even heard of Catalan or Occitan for most my life, nor would I have guessed the language situation in France or Spain was fragmented. And it is so odd to me that they Catalan/Occitan were actively suppressed, when it seems like they form a natural bridge between all those languages.
What do you mean you wonder how different the world would be without these languages? If you speak some Romance language you'll probably understand most of what you read in these other Romance languages, yes. And yes, mostly the French government doesn't have any kind of respect towards its regional languages (and the Spanish too, but not as much). France has always centralized its power so having other languages is trouble for them, so they try to eliminate them, eliminating with it any sort of regionalism. If these languages haven't disappeared yet it's because those who speak do not want to leave their language and culture as an element of the past. Mercés!!
I honestly don't know how much of a "fight" people put up for their language changes the Duo team's decision to or not to start a course. Obviously there have to be contributors, though.
Yes, and I still haven't found any volunteer to contribute in the course, only myself, and I don't think I'd be able to do it at the moment, much less if it had to be for French speakers!
A mi m'encantaria aprendre occità! És una de les llengües que tinc a la meva llista d'idiomes que haig d'aprendre sí o sí.
Doncs molts ànims! Ja veuràs com et serà força fàcil si ja parles català ;) Bon astre!
Like with Catalan being for Spanish speakers, I'm sure we'll see Occitan and perhaps Breton along with Alsatian for French speakers someday soon. I think Aragonese and Galician are pretty likely to arrive for Spanish speakers too. It may be a little while until they have English courses, but I'm sure it will happen eventually.
occitan should be for both, catalans and french people. Most of the people will say that the occitan is mostly spoken in the "occitània", but only in Catalonia it's an official language.
Prou bé! Va millorant ;) Aquest ha estat el meu tercer curs que l'he estudiat, per tant m'han donat el títol de nivell B1 i l'any que ve ja tindria el B2 si segueixo estudiant-lo, cosa que no està malament...
Yes please! Occitan course would be awesome.
I am very much into French folk music and dances, and this will be just great.
Cheers from Moscow , Russia!
I want to see Occitan on Duolingo; especially in English. Then it can be in French, Italian and Spanish too. Lenga d'Oc is logical choice for me too. I would like to learn the language of "troubadours" and "Cathars".
I really want to speak Occitan, but ressources to learn are scarce...
I'm from Provence and I speak occitan in the provençal dialect and the "maritime" version of the provençal. I speak well italian and a little bit of english. So I can contribute only for "Occitan-provençau"!
Gramacì ! A ben lèu!
i am very happy to this this thread isn't dead and would love to see such a course as well in duolingo. to me french -> occitan seems a natural starting point as it may help people in occitania as well and then it would be easier to port it to english -> occitan once a frame work is in place.
i know memrise already offers some courses and it would help having it in duolingo as well to make this language more popular and giving it the attention it deserves.
I’m an aspiring troubadour* and I’d love a Occitan course for English.
I would love to learn Occitan. I have tried with what few resources are available for people in the US but it was a bit hard for me. And the newer Assimil book costs too much for my budget (I have the Breton Assimil--that was a pricey investment). I can read a little Occitan from knowing some other Romance languages. but I would prefer to learn it properly.
After learning it through Memerise,i would like it so much to see this beautiful language of south France to have a course here.
I would like to see it offered in English.
As an aside, Catalan is only offered in Spanish right now. So offering a new language in Catalan seems unlikely. :(
Yeah... Catalan is the most unlikely. But between French and English... hard choice. It'd probalby be easier in French since more Occitan speakers speak French and less, English. But in English it may be more useful, perhaps...
Check out Occitan in my blog! Discover the real language of love, the third language of catalonia and minority language with a huge history that just won't die. It's Occitan. Here is its fascinating story! https://languagevolcano.wordpress.com/2019/06/20/occitan-languages-profile/