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  5. "Том думал, что она ходит в ш…

"Том думал, что она ходит в школу."

Translation:Tom thought that she went to school.

November 28, 2015

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ech035

Анна and она are so similar. I always make mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

DL's audio is not everything it should be. Sometimes it is automated text-to-speech. The difference between Анна and она is supposed to be detectable in the placement of the accent, first vs. second syllable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dakeryas

The audio is so bad that ask my Russian girlfriend to choose for me between Анна and Она, and not only is she often unsure, she gets it wrong half of the time (like for that one), despite repeated plays before choosing. They really need to pick another name.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

I've made this specific complaint before, about this specific word, and on different sentences. I've never gotten any useful response from DL. I'm suspicious that the fast and slow recordings that they put in the lesson can differ from the recording that shows up here. I just listened to the recording on this page and the pronunciation of она here sounds pretty good, although it would be better if they would slow it down a little and carefully emphasize the word-stress for the benefit of students.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oemerich

Хаха, спасибо большое за этот пост, Dakeryas :)))

Если даже русская не слушает отличие между "она" и "Анна", как могу я?!? xD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ward.Joshua

In live pronunciation, does что она really sound like что 'на or чтона, or should there be a glottal stop between the vowels?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curt

Glottal stops don't really occur in Russian, so что она is pronounced with the two vowel sounds slurred together. Words like вообще are also pronounced without a glottal stop.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/episkbo

To me it 100% sounds like the female voice is saying "что находит в школу". The male voice pronounciation sounds fine though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cherub721

Does this sentence mean he thought she attends/attended school (in general) or that she went to school (on a particular day)? I think it's the first one, but I'm not totally clear on this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexm768

Both meanings can be implied, although not "on a particular day" (this would be "она (была) в школе") but within some period of time:
Том думал, что она ходит в школу. However, her teacher called Tom yesterday and informed that they had not seen his daughter in the school for a week.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarcophagus2

Would not "Tom thought that she had gone to school" be an a better translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexm768

I don't think so.

In general, to say "она ходит в школу" means that she is a student, she attends school.
At the same time, you can narrow the meaning. If she is sick, she can miss school for some time. You can say then that "она болеет и не ходит в школу", though she is still a student.

Therefore, the original sentence about Tom can have both of these meanings. Tom thought that she was a student, but she was not (e.g. she graduated). Or, Tom knew she was a student, he thought that she visited her school for some unmentioned period of time (i.e. every day, this month, etc.), but she missed her classes actually.

Does "she has gone to school" mean she left her home with intention to reach her school? This would be "ушла в школу".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mightypotatoe

It means that she attends school in general.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Freddy-Jason

If ходить is multi-directional then the Russian sentence should be "Tom думал что она удёт в школу." since the phrase "в школу" implies that the act of walking should have one direction only. I wonder why the verb ходит is used here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Attending classes habitually is expressed using ходить.

If you meant a one-time action ("He thought she was on her way to school"), you would indeed use идёт.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Freddy-Jason

So the difference between идти and ходить lies in their aspect as the former is perfective while the latter is imperfective. Many thanks for the reply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

They are both imperfective. Verbs of motion have this additional distinction of specific, one-way vs. generic or multidirectional movement:

  • идти/ходить "walk, go"
  • ехать/ездить "travel by vehicle, drive"
  • бежать/бегать "run"
  • плыть/плавать "swim, sail, float"
  • лететь/летать "fly"

There are about 14 pairs of such verbs in Russian (if you include the reflexive ones, i.e. count both носить/нести and носиться/нестись).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Freddy-Jason

Thanks a million. I really appreciate your helpful comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

Why not "Tom was thinking that she goes to school"? DL marks it wrong. Wouldn't "Tom thought" more likely be "Том подумал"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexm768

"Was thinking that she..." would be "размышлял над тем, что она..." or "обдумывал то, что она...". Думал here represents his knowledge about her, not a process of thinking. Подумал here would mean that this thought about her came to him at the moment.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curt

Choice of aspect is really sensitive to context, which is often absent in these isolated sentences. I think there will be many times when Duolingo won't be the best tool for teaching or learning aspect, so just be patient & ask! :) I would say Том думал.. could be either 'Tom thought' or 'Tom was thinking,' as well as what alexm768 suggests.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miluelbarbaro

But ходила could work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmosOnn

What about "was thinking she goes to school", in the perfective sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

In English we can say, "Tom thought she goes to school" or "Tom thought she is going to school," to mean that Tom assumed she was a student. These English sentences would be literal translations of this Russian. Would this meaning, of these English sentences, correspond to the meaning of this Russian sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachelblahblah

Pronunciation question: Would it sound exactly the same (though I know it makes no sense at all) to say "том думал, что находит в школу" in natural speech?

That is, I want to know if in natural speech vowel sounds merge into each other when they are the same and right next to each other in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

I doubt it might sound indentical in natural speech, though you may confuse the two in a very noisy environment. The difference is, the vowels represented by О in что and она usually sound different, and even if they sound the same for some reason, you are still left with double the vowel length and the weird stress pattern (она might lose a bit of emphasis—and still, the pitch contour can only by accident match what you'd expect of находит)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachelblahblah

Wow, I really appreciate this community. You guys are always so on top of things. Thank you!

This transition (/ɔ̝/ to /ɐ/) is hard for me to hear. Even if I say a sentence in English (at natural speed) like "The law on driving..." or something, the difference between that and "The lawn driving..." is only barely discernable (and just by vowel length, as you mentioned). I think I'd only know which was said because one of them doesn't make any sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

(the pronunciation by the TTS is not quite representative of what it should be: что should not receive the emphasis here)

It is more like, there are many things wrong with ..то она хо.. being transformed into ..то нахо..

  • Она is not a preposition, so на will get at least some kinf of stress. На in находит is the first unstressed syllable, so you expect to hear the unstressed "a" there.
  • in Russian, the major pitch changes generally occur leading to and after the stressed syllable. It might happen that она is lower than ходит but it may also happen otherwise/ In the latter case the "находит" interpretation means you get a weird fall of pitch from на to хо.
  • oftentimes что gets an audible О sound (not quite standard but still popular). It means that a transition from O to A is pretty audible, too.
  • two vowels, at least one of which is not fully reduced, sound quite a bit longer than you would expect just one of them to sound.

Confusing the two is still possible if the speaker suddlenly breaks the rhythm, if you could not quite hear that "что она" part of if a person is just speaking very, very fast. Still, it is more like the difference between "The use began" and "The US began": under normal circumstances, the stress and the rhythm alone make them different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rachelblahblah

So if I understand correctly (I'll use caps to show pitch):

что она ходит = чтɔ̝ ɐНА ходит and что находит = чтɔ̝ наХОдит


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dexterinthedark

to me думал sounds like it's pronounced думу or дому in both normal and slow recordings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/supermollusc

"Tom thought that she went to school." is wrong here. What is meant is "Tom thought that she was going/had (already) gone to school" "Tom thought that she went to school" implies that he believed that she was in education generally. It seems quite often in Duo that the non-native English speakers have picked up the wrong tense because American English largely dispenses with the perfect, unlike British English where it is standard usage


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

"Tom thought that she went to school" implies that he believed that she was in education generally. → I thought so too. So the translation in the title is perfect, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

The English sentence here is ambiguous. You could argue about this translation forever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/supermollusc

Strictly speaking you can say that the translation implies Tom's belief. But I find it hard to believe that this was the meaning intended in the exercise. I think that there is an ongoing problem with translating to and from the English perfect in the Russian section. I have seen several times the imperfect used with "already", eg something like "He already ate the cake" which is simply wrong. I think that the Russian-speakers running the Russian course, which is great, and I have learnt a lot from it, need to heed what the native English speakers are saying about the correct use of tense in English, which is v tricky for non-natives, especially for those who speak a language where the imperfect/perfect distinction does not exist


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dhurgham8

To is thinking about how she going to school


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doorandish

Ходить should be in the past form. Ходила


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JasnaSofkaMaja

Is Tom a tomcat (кот)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daoofasaur911

Tom is girl name????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kundoo

No, Tom was thinking about another person, who is female,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NickMarsto1

Why the change in tense? "Tom thought that she goes to school." is good English and in keeping with the grammatical construction of the original. Otherwise, to correspond to the translation above, shouldn't the original be "... что она пошла ..." or "...шла...? Depending on the sense in which she is said to "go"," be going" , "was going " or "went".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dakeryas

Read the first comment and its answer. In short, there is tense concordance in English (although Americans don't manage to use it correctly consistently) and none in Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greggy36

The correct translation should be "...что, она ходила в школу." The meaning of the recording, since ходит is in the present tense, is 'Tom was thinking that she is (in the process of) going to school.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shady_arc

Ходит в школу is a habitual action; you cannot be in the process of it.

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