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  5. "Купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба…

"Купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба."

Translation:Buy us some bread.

November 30, 2015

76 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imnuts7

Is какого-нибудь optional/Is it correct to say купи нам хлеба


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SlavaV

Yes, it's optional, saying какого-нибудь you emphasize it doesn't matter what bread it'll be


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Imnuts7

Oh good because купи нам хлеба was marked wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Menelion

"Купи нам хлеба" would be "buy us bread". The translation should be exact :).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

"Купи нам хлеба" would be "buy us [a quantity] of bread". "Купи нам хлеб," means "buy us bread."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peachtree2

Doesn't SlavaV have it right? Genitive хлеба already indicates "some". It seems like какого нибудь is just hard to translate idiomatically here so they limited themselves to "some". I'd guess: "buy us some sort of bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/F4yY9kZj

I agree with peachtree2. But my answer, "Buy us any kind of bread," was rejected. (On further investigation, perhaps that would be: 'Купи нам какой-нибудь хлеб'.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/F4yY9kZj

Maybe we could view 'Купи нам хлеба' as short for 'Купи нам количество хлеба', and 'Купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба' as short for 'Купи нам какой-нибудь количество хлеба."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/taffarelbergamin

The tiles gave me the option to write "buy us any bread", but it was marked wrong. Am I missing something here? I'm not native...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

In English, we would say "Buy us some bread." If someone asks, "Which bread should I buy?" then we could answer, "Buy us any bread," meaning "any type of bread," but in Russian that would be "Купи нам любого хлеба."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shane_Carrol_Ray

https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/сколько-нибудь - это раз. пользуюсь этим словом практически каждый день. buy whatever amount of bread - купи любое количество хлеба - звучит жутко как на русском, так и на английском, как по мне так. - это два. возможно, я заблуждалась всё это время, но была учерена, что some - о неважно каком количестве, any - о неважно каком типе.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Согласен, жутко. Я перевел смысл а не буквально "whatever amount of." Так редко говорят.

Можно говорить "some type, any type, some quantity, any quantity." Разница обычно так

"...-то" значит "some". Куда-то somewhere

"...-нибудь" значит "any". Куда-нибудь anywhere


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/taffarelbergamin

Hm... Ok, thanks :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shane_Carrol_Ray

ok. how would you say "купи сколько-нибудь хлеба"? - buy some bread. купи любого хлеба is the same that купи какого-нибудь хлеба - buy any bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I've never heard anyone say сколько-нибудь. Not sure if it's a real word, but it would be "whatever amount of."

Купи любого хлеба is a little wider option. Literally any--doesn't matter at all--which bread to buy. Купи какого-нибудь хлеба is saying "any type of bread" as opposed to "any bread." There is also "какого-либо" which means the same


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

In that case, it would be купи нам хлеб. You're not saying buy us "of bread", so just "bread" is nominative хлеб.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Direct object хлеб is accusative, not nominative
Direct object хлеба, as Partitive (genitive), means "some bread" not "of bread" - although it could be translated as "some quantity of bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I know that. I was being literal in order to explain to an English-speaker what genitive case is, since it doesn't exist in English.

хлеб nominative = bread (subject)

хлеб accusative = bread (object)

хлеба genitive = of bread, from bread

хлебом instrumental = with bread, using bread

хлебу dative = to the bread, for the bread

хлебе prepositional = on the bread, in the bread (Russian preposition required на, в,)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Scian4

Well, it kind of does, we're just never taught that depth of grammar. Which is why so many people have no idea how to use an apostrophe to show possession. (Or whether to say "John and I" or "John and me" in any given situation, but that's a different case.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gokhan.akay

why not 'какой нибудь хлеб' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Addmande

I believe because it is partitive genitive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I think question is: Why is it partitive, when како-ныбудь already means "some"? Making хлеб partitive seems redundant when preceded by како-ныбудь = "some some bread"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Because какого-нибудь хлеба means any [type] of bread. The "of bread" is genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

This point always confuses me about Russian grammar: Is какого-нибудь the partitive object, perhaps = "some (quantity)", modified by the genitive хелба = "of bread" - or is хлеба the partitive object = "some bread" and какого-нибудь is genitive so that it agrees with хлега while emphasizing it or explaining it in more detail?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

В этом случае возможны несколько корректных переводов:

  • Купи хлеба.

  • Купи нам хлеба.

  • Купи нам (немного) хлеба.

  • Купи нам (какого-нибудь) хлеба.

  • Купи нам (какого-то) хлеба.

Слова в скобках являются малоинформативными (не имеют важного значения).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Partitive (a subset of genitive) signifies "some quantity" when it appears in genitive case when it would normally be in accusative (as direct objects usually are). "Partitive" literally means "part of a greater whole", and when used in the context of this sentence, it transforms the direct object from a generalized, almost abstract concept of "any amount of bread" to "some quantity of bread".

The amount of that quantity would be particular to the experience of the particular speaker ("a loaf of bread" for instance), requiring a context which is not present here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ulgane

In a sentence before it was "дай мне какой-нибудь воды". Why is "какой-нибудь" in the former sentence not declined, but in this sentence it's "кокого-нибудь"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

That's a great question, as it is easy to mix up the masculine nominative какой with the declined feminine genitive какой. Какой-нибудь воды is declined. It's declined from the feminine, since вода is feminine. Какой-нибудь воды is declined from какая-нибудь вода.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/superechidna

Why is partitive genitive necessary here (i.e. why isn't accusative sufficient?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Because какого-нибудь хлеба means "any [type] of bread." The "of bread" is genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Accusative is sufficient, though the meaning is slightly different. Купи нам хлеб means "Buy us bread." Simple, no types or quantities.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Because partitive (a sub-category of genitive) signifies "some quantity of", while accusative just means a more abstract concept of "bread".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frank47625

Why is 'buy us any kind of bread' wrong? Doesn't 'какого-нибудь' imply that it can be any bread? If you want to say 'buy us some bread' you don't really need it, or am I mistaken?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

"Buy us any kind of bread," would be Купи нам любого хлеба.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chrabia297

But that doesn't mean that this sentence couldn't be translated to "buy us any bread"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frank47625

Ah of course :D thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunnoHC

Could "buy us any bread" be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

That would be closer to

Купи нам любой хлеб


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunnoHC

Hm... Ok, thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djerun13

Is "Купи нам хоть какой хлеб" an another option for "buy us any bread"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bleepandbloop

"buy us some bread" sounds like the amount is the thing that doesn't matter, while the comments seem to say that this means any kind of bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ari675341

I translated it as "buy us any kind of bread", and was marked wrong. I know that leaves out the "some" meaning of the partative genitive, but I thought that since "какого-нибудь" was in there, it should be included in the translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katie368826

Какого-нибудь хлеба = any old bread ?

(Edited to correct typo)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

"Any old bread" is English slang for "any type of bread." (You don't want to use the word "old" in Russian when referring to bread.) какого-нибудь means some type of bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Katie368826

Yes, that was a typo, sorry :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/polygab

Why какого? I think understand why хлеба is genitive, but I don't understand why какого needs to be genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Because you cannot say Купи нам какой-нибудь хлеба. The noun determiner must be in the same case as the noun


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/polygab

"The noun determiner must be in the same case as the noun".

Indeed, but somehow I was thinking that the sentence could be reduced to "Купи нам какой-нибудь" and then "хлеба" would be a subordinate. I still don't really understand why "какой-нибудь" is a modifier instead of the object of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

A parallel would be, "Buy us any." That's an incomplete thought, just like it would be in Russian, unless you're answering a previous, "which bread?", It's just that "any" doesn't decline in English, but it does in Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/polygab

Well that's the thing: "Buy us any" actually feels grammatically sound to me because I interpret "any" as an object. I suppose that's just wrong though, and "any" should be understood as adjectival.

Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

My pleasure! BTW, I didn't mean that "Buy us any" is incorrect. I just meant that without a previous question or statement about bread, it's an incomplete thought. If someone walks up to you and says "Buy me any." You'd have no clue what he is talking about. Same with Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mechanarwhal

I have a question about the нибудь part instead! What would the difference be between "купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба" and "купи нам какого-то хлеба"? I would have thought that you'd use "какого-то" because you know that it will be bread, you just don't know what kind of bread?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Какого-то means some kind. Какого-нибудь means any kind of bread. The latter emphasizes more indifference; the person really doesn't care what kind--any kind will do. In the former, any kind will do, but the person asking isn't showing indifference. He still cares what kind.


[deactivated user]

    The answer should be "buy us some KIND of bread" imo


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SPlingogo

    Let me see if I understand correctly. The sentence is saying, "Buy us any (type of) bead." as opposed to, "Buy us some bread." Therefore, "Купи нам хлеба." would not correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    No, the two aren't opposed to each other in this case. Both are correct. Beside that, Купи нам хлеб, not "хлеба," also means the same thing. "Buy us bread," implies "some bread" or "any type of bread."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shani.gorm

    I wrote: Buy us bread of some kind


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    And was it accepted or rejected?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

    I'm confused: why is какого (genitive) used? Is this literally "bread of some kind"?

    (Minutes later... OK, some of va-diim's comments shed light: хлеба is partitive, and какого is agreeing with it? So in English that makes this clearer: "Buy us some bread, any kind." Sorry, it's hard to plow through this many comments and I didn't see this first time. This question is obviously generating a lot of confusion.)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    This sentence seems to be redundant.

    Katzner's Russian-English dictionary defines какой-нибудь as an adjective meaning "some", and Partitive хлеба means "some bread", so that literally какого-нибудь хлеба means "some some bread". Obviously, there is some other better interpretation to this phrase, and it would be nice to know what that is.

    It would make more sense to me if какого-нибудь were a Partitive indefinite pronoun meaning "some quantity" and хлеба is simply genitive meaning "of bread" - similar to the way that Russian counts things, with the number followed by the genitive = "[a number] of thing(s)".

    The grammar here doesn't seem like it follows any one rule, but partakes of two or more general rules in an indeterminate way, to come up with a phrase everyone understands.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mortificator

    literally какого-нибудь хлеба means "some some bread"

    Верно. Слово "какого-нибудь" является избыточным, но в русском языке лишние слова встречаются часто.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucy163354

    Isn't it enough just to say хлеба?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    Yes, but Duolingo is teaching "какое-то" vs. "какое-нибудь" in this section.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucy163354

    Aha! Mystery solved!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bleedingorange

    I thought кокой-нибудь meant "any type of", and the sentence meant "buy us some any-type-of bread". The "some" here looked redundant so I wrote "buy us any kind of bread", and it was marked wrong.

    "Buy us any kind of bread" does seem a bit strange, but does it convey the meaning of the Russian sentence?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    It's not really about the "kind of bread." It's about the bread itself, so "buy us any bread" would sound strange. That's why it's "buy us some bread."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greg496

    Earlier we had дайте мне лук and the correct answer was 'give me some onions'. Now there's a word for 'some' in the same context and usage. How fun.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    It wasn't лук. It was лука, the genitive case just like here хлеба. The difference is that asking for some onion at the dinner table wouldn't use какого-нибудь because there is assumingly only one selection of onion to choose from. But asking to buy some bread implies that there are many types of bread at the store to choose from, so какого-нибудь хлеба means it doesn't matter which bread.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucy163354

    This is very helpful! So presumably if you are buying an item like potatoes where there aren't various options, the genitive alone would suffice to express the English some?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    Yes. It's called the partitive genitive. It expresses a portion "of noun". Remember that "of noun" uses the genitive case just like "with noun" uses instrumental.

    So when you say in Russian literally "give me of bread," bread takes the partitive genitive and expresses "some bread." The word "some" is a partitive word in English


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Greg496

    Thanks for that explanation


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve448292

    This is from WIKI https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%85%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B0#Russian Russian Pronunciation хле́ба: IPA(key): [ˈxlʲebə] хлеба́: IPA(key): [xlʲɪˈba] Noun хле́ба • (xléba) m inan

    genitive singular of хлеб (xleb) Noun хлеба́ • (xlebá) m inan pl

    nominative/accusative plural of хлеб (xleb)

    My question is, can someone go through the structure of this statement "Купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба" please. Specifically, is хлеба, genitive or acusative plural? To me, it seems to fit both ways and that is confusing for this old bloke. "Buy me some breads (plural) - doesn't matter which types, just some breads. Maybe some with garlic, some with whole grain seeds some white, some brown OR!!!! Buy me some type of bread (singular) and then, would какого-нибудь be acting as a "quantity" and be forcing genitive. I probably have this all mixed up, but still, if someone wishes give a helping hand that would be great. Thanks


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

    It's genitive case, partitive genitive to be exact. Partitive genitive is used to denote a portion of bread.

    хлеба [gen.] = "of/from bread"

    It can't be accusative case because хлеб is inanimate. The accusative case is the same as the nominative case for singular gender-masculine inanimate and singular gender-neuter nouns. And it can't be plural because какого-нибудь is a singular noun determiner. Plural would be какие-нибудь or каких-нибудь.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve448292

    Thanks Va dim )) This is the part that knits it all together. Much appreciated "And it can't be plural because какого-нибудь is a singular noun determiner. Plural would be какие-нибудь or каких-нибудь."

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