https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/сколько-нибудь - это раз. пользуюсь этим словом практически каждый день. buy whatever amount of bread - купи любое количество хлеба - звучит жутко как на русском, так и на английском, как по мне так. - это два. возможно, я заблуждалась всё это время, но была учерена, что some - о неважно каком количестве, any - о неважно каком типе.
I've never heard anyone say сколько-нибудь. Not sure if it's a real word, but it would be "whatever amount of."
Купи любого хлеба is a little wider option. Literally any--doesn't matter at all--which bread to buy. Купи какого-нибудь хлеба is saying "any type of bread" as opposed to "any bread." There is also "какого-либо" which means the same
I know that. I was being literal in order to explain to an English-speaker what genitive case is, since it doesn't exist in English.
хлеб nominative = bread (subject)
хлеб accusative = bread (object)
хлеба genitive = of bread, from bread
хлебом instrumental = with bread, using bread
хлебу dative = to the bread, for the bread
хлебе prepositional = on the bread, in the bread (Russian preposition required на, в,)
This point always confuses me about Russian grammar: Is какого-нибудь the partitive object, perhaps = "some (quantity)", modified by the genitive хелба = "of bread" - or is хлеба the partitive object = "some bread" and какого-нибудь is genitive so that it agrees with хлега while emphasizing it or explaining it in more detail?
Partitive (a subset of genitive) signifies "some quantity" when it appears in genitive case when it would normally be in accusative (as direct objects usually are). "Partitive" literally means "part of a greater whole", and when used in the context of this sentence, it transforms the direct object from a generalized, almost abstract concept of "any amount of bread" to "some quantity of bread".
The amount of that quantity would be particular to the experience of the particular speaker ("a loaf of bread" for instance), requiring a context which is not present here.
"The noun determiner must be in the same case as the noun".
Indeed, but somehow I was thinking that the sentence could be reduced to "Купи нам какой-нибудь" and then "хлеба" would be a subordinate. I still don't really understand why "какой-нибудь" is a modifier instead of the object of the sentence.
My pleasure! BTW, I didn't mean that "Buy us any" is incorrect. I just meant that without a previous question or statement about bread, it's an incomplete thought. If someone walks up to you and says "Buy me any." You'd have no clue what he is talking about. Same with Russian.
I have a question about the нибудь part instead! What would the difference be between "купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба" and "купи нам какого-то хлеба"? I would have thought that you'd use "какого-то" because you know that it will be bread, you just don't know what kind of bread?
Какого-то means some kind. Какого-нибудь means any kind of bread. The latter emphasizes more indifference; the person really doesn't care what kind--any kind will do. In the former, any kind will do, but the person asking isn't showing indifference. He still cares what kind.
I'm confused: why is какого (genitive) used? Is this literally "bread of some kind"?
(Minutes later... OK, some of va-diim's comments shed light: хлеба is partitive, and какого is agreeing with it? So in English that makes this clearer: "Buy us some bread, any kind." Sorry, it's hard to plow through this many comments and I didn't see this first time. This question is obviously generating a lot of confusion.)
This sentence seems to be redundant.
Katzner's Russian-English dictionary defines какой-нибудь as an adjective meaning "some", and Partitive хлеба means "some bread", so that literally какого-нибудь хлеба means "some some bread". Obviously, there is some other better interpretation to this phrase, and it would be nice to know what that is.
It would make more sense to me if какого-нибудь were a Partitive indefinite pronoun meaning "some quantity" and хлеба is simply genitive meaning "of bread" - similar to the way that Russian counts things, with the number followed by the genitive = "[a number] of thing(s)".
The grammar here doesn't seem like it follows any one rule, but partakes of two or more general rules in an indeterminate way, to come up with a phrase everyone understands.
I thought кокой-нибудь meant "any type of", and the sentence meant "buy us some any-type-of bread". The "some" here looked redundant so I wrote "buy us any kind of bread", and it was marked wrong.
"Buy us any kind of bread" does seem a bit strange, but does it convey the meaning of the Russian sentence?
It wasn't лук. It was лука, the genitive case just like here хлеба. The difference is that asking for some onion at the dinner table wouldn't use какого-нибудь because there is assumingly only one selection of onion to choose from. But asking to buy some bread implies that there are many types of bread at the store to choose from, so какого-нибудь хлеба means it doesn't matter which bread.
Yes. It's called the partitive genitive. It expresses a portion "of noun". Remember that "of noun" uses the genitive case just like "with noun" uses instrumental.
So when you say in Russian literally "give me of bread," bread takes the partitive genitive and expresses "some bread." The word "some" is a partitive word in English
This is from WIKI https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%85%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%B0#Russian Russian Pronunciation хле́ба: IPA(key): [ˈxlʲebə] хлеба́: IPA(key): [xlʲɪˈba] Noun хле́ба • (xléba) m inan
genitive singular of хлеб (xleb) Noun хлеба́ • (xlebá) m inan pl
nominative/accusative plural of хлеб (xleb)
My question is, can someone go through the structure of this statement "Купи нам какого-нибудь хлеба" please. Specifically, is хлеба, genitive or acusative plural? To me, it seems to fit both ways and that is confusing for this old bloke. "Buy me some breads (plural) - doesn't matter which types, just some breads. Maybe some with garlic, some with whole grain seeds some white, some brown OR!!!! Buy me some type of bread (singular) and then, would какого-нибудь be acting as a "quantity" and be forcing genitive. I probably have this all mixed up, but still, if someone wishes give a helping hand that would be great. Thanks
It's genitive case, partitive genitive to be exact. Partitive genitive is used to denote a portion of bread.
хлеба [gen.] = "of/from bread"
It can't be accusative case because хлеб is inanimate. The accusative case is the same as the nominative case for singular gender-masculine inanimate and singular gender-neuter nouns. And it can't be plural because какого-нибудь is a singular noun determiner. Plural would be какие-нибудь or каких-нибудь.