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"И меню, и тарелка на столе."

Translation:Both the menu and the plate are on the table.

December 3, 2015

30 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akuhime-sama

I put "A menu and a plate are on the table." Why is this incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MountedDragoon

The program wants the most literal translation in this case. So "a menu and a plate are on the table" would be more like меню и тарелка - на столе whereas "both a menu and a plate are on the table" is и меню и тарелка - на столе.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ranganaths4

It requires a feel of also that is why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chet35047

Why is the word both required?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ginorodrigues

I also would love to learn why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Because of the initial "и" - Russian "и ... и ..." equates to English "both ... and ..." It's a perfectly valid sentence in English without "both", just as it is in Russian without the first "и", but if you leave it out your translation doesn't correspond to the Russian sentence anymore.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Domingo_de

"Both menu and plate are on the table" should be a valid solution, no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I think - and I am just making an educated guess here - is that "menu and plate" are collective nouns, suggesting that there is more than one menu and more than one plate on the table. The Russian is singular, signifying that there is just one menu and one plate. Your sentence is thus ambiguous as to the number of items on the table.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ale_Nka

I have the same question...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/killerbng

In American English, it has to be declared singular somewhere. That is why the 'a' is needed before menu. I'm sure there is a technical term for this, but I am not sure.

If the course was to go by British or Australian English, than the 'a' would not be needed, but of course this course goes by American English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

It's no different in American English. Were plural intended, it would be "Both menus and plates are on the table."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/h2odog123

Additionally, in English, an article (the or a) is expected. Without the article you're giving the super literal translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan234087

The word "both" is unnecessary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Apparently it actually is necessary, if the point made above by Theron126 is correct. It's not bad English to leave it out, but it seems that the И..., И... construction in Russian actually means "both". I assume that the Russian would have to be меню и тарелка if you wanted to translated it without the "both".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jez8851

I was trying to be clever and wrote "Both the menu and the plate are on the desk", since стол is both table and desk (?). I was marked incorrect, however.

Is this just a contextual thing? As in, is it just that you're not likely to find a menu and a plate on a desk, but you would on a table? Or is there another reason why the translation is incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AidenCotnam

The meaning of стол depends on context (however it typically means "table"). In this case, one probably wouldn't expect a menu and plate to be on a desk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smoothestj

Why does the sentence start with И, is this necessary when listing things?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

It's an idiom which makes the sentence mean "both .... and....". See the comment by Theron126 above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OksanaAlexandra

Technically the direct translation should be "And the menu, and the plate - both are on the table" or at least "the menu and the plate - both are on the table"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MountedDragoon

Technically, not, actually. It's the same as ни X ни Y being "neither X nor Y". The two words look the same, but aren't the same in this case. They can be considered homonyms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cecilia798621

Um... i dont know if this is a glitch but i literally started with all the words to the question already in their spot. I just clicked check and it got it right... what just happened?!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BARJ8

instead of "both" "as well as" shoul also work, but is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jamie1531

English speakers usually say "both the menu and plate are on the table." Only one "the" is necessary when we have numerous items. "The menu, plate, and cup are on the table"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BiMu476578

I'm studying Russian not English grammar and the article "a" for menu and plate are as correct as the article "the"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteinBauge

To require two 'the' here is crap


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daaaniiilka

This audio is hella fast..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LyallRJones

Should "both are on the table, the plate and the menu" be a correct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CazzoPORTI

I clicked on "Both" first and it did not move. I just clicked 'Check' anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andrewseag

"Both" in this context is very stilted English so is not correct unless the Russian is equally stilted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MountedDragoon

I don't see how it's stilted. It depends on what was said before. If two objects are expected to be in different places, you might say "both X and Y are on Z".

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