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"И меню, и тарелка на столе."

Translation:Both the menu and the plate are on the table.

December 3, 2015

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akuhime-sama

I put "A menu and a plate are on the table." Why is this incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrannyTheBunny

The program wants the most literal translation in this case. So "a menu and a plate are on the table" would be more like меню и тарелка - на столе whereas "both a menu and a plate are on the table" is и меню и тарелка - на столе.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ranganaths4

It requires a feel of also that is why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chet35047

Why is the word both required?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ginorodrigues

I also would love to learn why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Because of the initial "и" - Russian "и ... и ..." equates to English "both ... and ..." It's a perfectly valid sentence in English without "both", just as it is in Russian without the first "и", but if you leave it out your translation doesn't correspond to the Russian sentence anymore.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Domingo_de

"Both menu and plate are on the table" should be a valid solution, no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ale_Nka

I have the same question...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I think - and I am just making an educated guess here - is that "menu and plate" are collective nouns, suggesting that there is more than one menu and more than one plate on the table. The Russian is singular, signifying that there is just one menu and one plate. Your sentence is thus ambiguous as to the number of items on the table.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BARJ8

instead of "both" "as well as" shoul also work, but is not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bryan234087

The word "both" is unnecessary


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Apparently it actually is necessary, if the point made above by Theron126 is correct. It's not bad English to leave it out, but it seems that the И..., И... construction in Russian actually means "both". I assume that the Russian would have to be меню и тарелка if you wanted to translated it without the "both".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BiMu476578

I'm studying Russian not English grammar and the article "a" for menu and plate are as correct as the article "the"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jez8851

I was trying to be clever and wrote "Both the menu and the plate are on the desk", since стол is both table and desk (?). I was marked incorrect, however.

Is this just a contextual thing? As in, is it just that you're not likely to find a menu and a plate on a desk, but you would on a table? Or is there another reason why the translation is incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AidenCotnam

The meaning of стол depends on context (however it typically means "table"). In this case, one probably wouldn't expect a menu and plate to be on a desk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertDaga1

I said "A menu and A plate are on the table." and was incorrect by DL... After reading, i understand the meaning of "Both" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/smoothestj

Why does the sentence start with И, is this necessary when listing things?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

It's an idiom which makes the sentence mean "both .... and....". See the comment by Theron126 above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LyallRJones

Should "both are on the table, the plate and the menu" be a correct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OksanaAlexandra

Technically the direct translation should be "And the menu, and the plate - both are on the table" or at least "the menu and the plate - both are on the table"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrannyTheBunny

Technically, not, actually. It's the same as ни X ни Y being "neither X nor Y". The two words look the same, but aren't the same in this case. They can be considered homonyms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CazzoPORTI

I clicked on "Both" first and it did not move. I just clicked 'Check' anyway.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jamie1531

English speakers usually say "both the menu and plate are on the table." Only one "the" is necessary when we have numerous items. "The menu, plate, and cup are on the table"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeyedMahmoud

How many "the" do we have to put?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bolokelen

I was marked wrong for 'Both menu and plate are on the table'. And yet that's exactly how I would say it conversationally. You don't need all the extra articles to indicate quantity - it just sounds stilted that way. The fact that I said menu and plate rather than menus and plates is already enough information. Boo Duo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenCostell3

"Both menu and plate are on the table" is a possible sentence, but wow, that is a hyper-specific construction, and I cannot even begin to articulate how and when that structure might be used. My immediate impression is that that structure exists in poetry and much older English. It's possible it's a feature of Englishes other than American. Are you a native speaker, and, if so, where are you from? To me, not using an article here is, as I said, technically possible, but only something I've come across in literature (American English speaker)

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