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English question

How and when to use "have had" , "had have".?? Sorry but I am really confused why sometimes it is doubled like "had had"? Please help. Thank you in advance

2 years ago

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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Do you have an example sentence with "had have"? This is ill-formed English as far as I know, unless you are talking meta- language, like where everyone has a piece of paper with a word and someone says "what word did you have" and the response could be "I had 'have'", but that is a pretty forced context, and won't come up that often.

As far as "have had" and "had had", it's about some starting point in the past, and whether the timeline of what you are talking about goes from that point to some other later point still in the past, or if it goes to the present. so:

Present: I have a dog.

Present Perfect: I have had a dog for 8 years. (starting at some point 8 years ago, I had a dog, and I still do)

Past Perfect: Before he ran away, I had had a dog for 8 years. (starting at some point in the distant past, I had a dog, and I had him until he ran away 8 years later)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/might.E

Thank you, but what if there is no date like "8 years ago".? For example, should I use "I have had a dog 8 years ago" or "I had a dog 8 years ago"? what's the difference?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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"I had a dog 8 years ago" is better, because simply saying "had", by itself, doesn't imply a specific start or end point, simply that at some unspecified point in time 8 years ago (that "point" in time could have been a day or two, or a few months, or the whole year, but the idea is that at some specific span of time in the past you owned a dog, and now you don't, that span of time does not include the present).

"have had" is not so limited. In fact, you -could- use it to say that at some point in the past you had one, and don't anymore: "Yeah, I've had a dog before (but I don't, now)" but, you would also specifically use it to point out on going spans of time that start in the past: "I've had a dog for a long time" or "what have you had to help you cope with the problem (that started in the past and you are still coping with)?" "I've had a dog".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibhreach

Edited to correct

Both sentences without the "8 years ago" bit are correct, and essentially mean the same thing.

I have had a dog.
Meaning: At one point in time, I had a dog, although I don't now.

Had you a dog in the past as well as currently, the had (formerly) would not be an issue to explain, but "I have a dog" or "I had a dog".

I think I may have found you a good link from Grammar Girl. It's a bit of a read, but it fully (and I mean fully) explains these concepts:

When Are Double Words OK?
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/when-are-double-words-ok

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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"I have had a dog 8 years ago" is not particularly correct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibhreach

Thank you for that! LOL I had to see it split out from the rest to notice the awkwardness. :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/might.E

Why? Does it mean that you only use "have had" when you're not sure about the time (i mean definite time)? and use "had" when there's a time ?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibhreach

Not necessarily. You can also say, I have had dogs all my life. Meaning you had (in the past) and currently have dogs. So it's not that you don't know the definite time, but that it's ongoing or that definite time doesn't matter.

Do read those links as they can better explain the have had and had had usage. Sometimes had (in "have had or had had*) replaces another action-verb.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I_Love_Poland

I think in that case it would just be I had a dog for 8 years.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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not if you still have it. If you -still- have the dog, and you say "I had a dog for 8 years", people will assume that you don't have it anymore.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I_Love_Poland

You would then say "I have had a dog for 8 years"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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right. so...I'm confused at what you're saying, it sounds like I've already said exactly what you said...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SquirrelFriendJ

This is not the best explanation, but in schools, whenever something is wrong, the reason is because, it just doesn't sound right. Had had is the rarest of the three, so don't expect to see it too often ad it doesn't throw many people off, along with to to and many other forms. I don't think had have is a thing though, at least I can't think of anything that it would apply to. It could just a weird thing like this grammatically correct English sentence: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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the reason something is wrong is not usually because it doesn't sound right, there is an actual reason it is not right. But, for a native speaker of any language, something "not sounding right" is simply a very good -indication- that something is wrong.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulalock

As well as Buffalo there is the one with 11 consecutive "had"s which needs punctuation to make sense! English is not easy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_while_John_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_a_better_effect_on_the_teacher

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kubelnaby
kubelnaby
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I'm not a native speaker, but i don't think that "had had" is "doubled". It is just the past tense + the past participle, they just happen to have the same form in English, it is like German (ich) hatte gehabt or Italian avevo avuto. From what i can understand, "had had" is used to express something happened in the past, but before another past event (expressed or just implied).

See this lesson:

http://www.englishgrammar.org/have-had-and-had-had

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
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I had had a tooth pulled when I was five, would be one example.

PS: That sentence is not true, just what I came up with.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I_Love_Poland

that would just be I had a tooth...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SiblingCreature

Not necessarily, it would depend on the context.

Your version: "Having a tooth pulled hurts"
"How do you know?" "I had a tooth pulled when I was five."

A_user's version: "I wasn't looking forward to my trip to the dentist, as I had had a tooth pulled when I was five, and it had hurt."

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User
A_User
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Admittedly, your version would probably be the more common one, but the second is still correct English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I_Love_Poland

have had example: I have had a pet before. can't think of examples for the others.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/might.E

Thank you for giving example but it still remains ambiguous.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/I_Love_Poland

It's my native language and I don't understand it!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheQueenZerelda

I don't think I've ever heard someone say "had have". I can't think of a single sentence that you would use "had have" in.

But depending on the sentence and who is speaking "have had" often sounds like "of had" so be prepared to hear things like, "I could of had a piece" "We might of gone with her" "They would of taken the trash out".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/might.E

But why so?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheQueenZerelda

Which part? We just don't use "had have". And it sounds like "of had" because "have" has been shortened to " 'ave". So really it sounds like, " 'ave had." Yes, in American English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/garpike
garpike
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He might be confusing it with 'would have' or 'should have' contracted to 'pronoun'd have' (I'd have gone, etc.). Even invoking the present subjunctive and unidiomatic word-order, I can't think of a sentence containing 'had have' without a comma between them.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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when written, it is shortened to -'ve-, and only when attached to certain other words. but yes, when people say "could've", it sounds like "could of".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheQueenZerelda

Oh, ha ha, that's right. Silly me.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheQueenZerelda

Also, had had is doubled sometimes because, "She had had a book" means "She had (in the past) had (possession of the book) a book."

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibhreach

The odd thing is, I think I use "have had" and even "had had" relatively frequently. Not as often in writing, but mostly spoken situations because it just looks awkward, but I actually don't feel awkward using these constructs in conversation.

EX: I have had nothing but trouble with my computer all day.

It's a very natural sentence to me. Does it make sense to you? All day long, my computer has been causing me trouble.

Found another link for you! This one explains both have had & had had:
http://www.englishgrammar.org/have-had-and-had-had/

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/maltu
maltu
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bbclearningenglish on Youtube might help you, they are short videos on individual topics. I don't have time to check for your query just now, but it seems to be the sort of thing they cover. Good luck!

2 years ago