1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: French
  4. >
  5. "Sans elle, je ne serais jama…

"Sans elle, je ne serais jamais devenu enseignant."

Translation:Without her, I would never have become a teacher.

December 7, 2015

59 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bobbychitwood

without her i would have never become a teacher


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArdeJohnson

"Without her, I would have never become a teacher"

Been rejected. Have reported. [07/01/2016] janvier


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

A third possibility:

  • Without her, I never would have become a teacher.

(Of the three versions, I actually prefer Duo's, stylistically.)

– Edit –

Newcomers (and those who feel compelled to repeat themselves): Discussions of possible variations are fine on this page, but if you don't have something new to add, please don't keep posting over and over about the continuing existence of the same omission. Just report it. (If there's a change, maybe you can update us all then.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiamNoir

Its unanimous. It should be correct. However, still not accepted, 25th March 2016.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SuperDescartes

Rejected for me too, 20 January 2016, reported


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cadilhac

? Are you asking if this is correct? Clearly these two things have the same meaning, so I'm not sure what is your question here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aleung0

"Would have never." and "Would never have." are they the same?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kittykiddo

From a native Am. English-speaker, yes, they are the same. Nobody I know would question the order...either way is fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alexander_Mann

still not accepted 05/06/2016 :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kocmohabt99

Still not accepted. October 2nd, 2016.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ana_81

Still rejected, 20/03/2017. I reported, but after more than year it seems useless.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frogcarguy2

still rejected Jun' 17


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aleung0

Fully agree .I only use "would have never " in common speaking here. Rejecting it is very strange to me too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaEscud

Please, fix this problem with "would have never"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlosQuin342077

Since it is a woman speaking, shouldn't "sans elle, je ne serais jamais DEVENUE enseignant" be accepted? I'm confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

Enseignant is masculine (the feminine would be enseignante, with an audible T). The Duo speakers read sentences appropriate to the opposite sex, so we should never assume anything based on the sex of the reader.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlosQuin342077

Thank you nzchicahgo. I'll be alert next time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frenchie_cz

how am I supposed to know if it is "sans elle" or "sans elles" - i cant hear it when the woman says the sentence...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanovic123

I wrote" without her, I would have never become a teacher ", and the solution was "Without her, I never would have become a teacher". Really?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barbie21144

You should report that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

In the fast version, he absolutely says "saurais." I should have listened to the slow version...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/taffyrm16

Still not fixed Feb 25 2017


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carol70562

As a woman speaker, shouldn't devenu have an e to agree with je being feminine/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

You have to use "enseignante" with "devenue".

If you get a type-what-you-hear question, if the speaker says "enseignant" then you can't use "devenue".

(Just imagine that the female speaker is quoting a male speaker.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elizabeth40982

But 'devenu' and 'devenue' sound the same, and whether it has an 'e' or not depends on the gender of the speaker, as 'devenir' takes 'etre' as its auxiliary (which means you add 'e's and 's's if it's feminine or plural). Although the actual gender of the voice is irrelevant, both versions should be accepted. For example, if a woman was writing this sentence she would use the version with an 'e', and if a man was writing it he would use the version without an 'e'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

We are hearing enseignant, which does not have a t sounded at the end. Therefore, the subject of the sentence is male. Therefore, you must use the masculine form devenu. It's irrelevant that devenu/e sound the same, because enseignant/e do not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaesarPepperwood

There's no difference in sound between 'elle' and 'elles' so in the listening exercise, 'elles' should be accepted too right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AroopGhosh

Why is this not accepted: Without her I would have never become a teacher


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barbie21144

I was marked wrong for "enseignante" (with an -e, for feminine). Why is that wrong? I was translating from English to French, so it was not a pronunciation issue.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmctrab

Still being rejected. Reported it again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reichdalmeida1

Sans elle, je N' serais jamais devenue enseignante = Duolingo's wrong. And is undoubtedly wrong. BUT- there's a but- they are not correcting English, only LACK OF ATTENTION. I've said already that Duolingo often corrects typos (not language) and they correct plain lack of speed (again not language). Often one doesn't have time to read evreything carefully. They do allowances for that but perhaps should try to go a bit further down that avenue. I don't think that throwing away trap phrases is fair. This is meant constructively - not as a negative comment and I do hope it is not taken as clutter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

Duolingo deliberately "gamifies" language learning. Database errors aside, to some extent one just has to accept that that's the model being applied here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stefanovic123

I wrote - "without her, I would have never become a teacher" and of course that's wrong. Ridiculous


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlotteRhodo

Duoling does not allow enough space to see my whole answer at once. (Type what you hear question.) Please make the answer field bigger.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neil-VA5WX

There's nowhere to suggest that my answer (Sans elles) should be accepted. 2018 February 19


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

When you finish an exercise, there is always an icon for suggestions. I think it's in the lower left-hand corner of the screen. You have to do it before you leave the page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidShill3

Might I suggest that "If it were not for her" is more natural English usage here than the literal "Without her". "Without" is a word one might use more for an object, rather than a person. E.g. Without my eyesight, I never would have become a teacher"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

Personally I wouldn't make that particular distinction, though I do think the two expressions have slightly different nuances (while still expressing similar notions).

I think "if it weren't for her" would work fine here, but I also don't think it's inappropriate here to think of "without her" as an abbreviated form of "without her by my side" or "without her in my life".

On the other hand, consider: "If it weren't for my poor eyesight, I might have been a pilot."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidShill3

Perhaps my analysis was incorrect but I just felt that "Without her" felt unnatural. I would never have used it in this context. I would have used the expression that I suggested, but Duolingo would not accept it.

But I know better than to expect that to change. I just have to learn what DuoLingo wants and be sure to use that so I can move on and achieve my goal which is to improve my French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

Fair enough.

It often seems a little hit-and-miss as to the changes that are made. Focusing on your goal is undoubtedly the best strategy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dougsfrench

"I would never have become a teacher" and "I would never have been a teacher" have always been used interchangeably in this context in my experience. Is this inaccurate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

Certainly there's not much difference in meaning, but when both languages have both verbs, with the same difference in nuance in each language, Duo will usually require you to translate directly to show that you know this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidHarri227108

I put 'sans elles' just to see if that would have been accepted. It wasn't, but it should have been.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lieslindi

I input "Without it, I would have never become a teacher" but that is wrong. What indicates that the subject of the preposition is a person rather than a feminine noun such as "aide" (help)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jane250512

Since it's a female speaker, shouldn't it have been "devenue"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarstenNie7

This sentence cannot be spoken by a woman. Because I heard the female voice, I automatically wrote "devenue". But a woman would have said "enseignante".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

The male and female voices on Duo are never indicative of the gender used in the sentences.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KarstenNie7

Yes, and I am critizing that. It's probably hard to program, but a woman saying "Je suis enseignant" is wrong. And please don't tell me she is quoting a man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

It is a woman reading a sentence. It's up to us to put aside our preconceptions and just hear it in a neutral way. As long as we understand that this is how Duo works, there is no problem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amermaqbool

since enseignant is a nous, would it not require an article?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arnobashtar15

Why don't they accept: I would have never became a teacher... Its in the past. Become, became, same difference! The French duolingo course is so nitpicky!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

"Would have never became" is incorrect English grammar, so they can't accept it. It does not exist in English. It is always "would have never become."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arnobashtar15

I have spoken English my whole life so I'm having a really hard time processing that... But thank you. In any case, they should mark it right with a typo warning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Frank_X

Present, past, past participle. Come, came, come. Same with become, became, become. I come, I came, I have come. I become, I became, I have become. Become is the correct form when used with a form of to have. I have become; you have become; he has become.

I have became is wrong for the same reason that I have went is wrong. Yet, I hear "have went" instead of "have gone" at least once a week from native speakers of American English in the United States. It is almost as often (mis-)used in my area as using "seen" instead of "saw" for the simple past.

I am not meaning to broaden the discussion, but only wanting to make the point that there are common usages in parts of the English-speaking world where incorrect grammar has been passed down through generations in some areas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arnobashtar15

Okay, thank you. I made the same mistake with "have went" as well, but Duolingo has set me straight now. I must have never caught on to this when I was in school, yet its just surprising since I have been in a Canadian University for 6 years, have graduated with honours, and yet, I still mess up something so simple. It's a bit ironic and funny. I suppose this is exactly how a language evolves; while linguists concur that English is currently evolving at an astonishing rate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nzchicago

In general, the typo warning only applies when the word can only be a mistake, not a real word. Since "became" is an actual word, Duo must see it as incorrect grammar, not a typo.

If you wrote "Would have never becume," Duo would mark that as a typo since it's not a word at all.

Computer programs have their limits, especially free ones.

Learn French in just 5 minutes a day. For free.