"ресторан возле моря"

Translation:a restaurant near the sea

3 years ago

33 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Jack.Elliot
Jack.Elliot
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the restaurant by the sea

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EvelynOlson0

Why not 'the restaurant near a sea'?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ChristianD398366

It's either

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jQuasebarth
jQuasebarth
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Yeah, I know this guy who for whatever reason started a restaurant near the entrance of Moria...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
AnCatDubh
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In isolation and in rapid speech the stress is different for some reason.

3 years ago

[deactivated user]

    I can't hear what it's pronouncing in isolation (I guess you only hear this in an excercise), but I think it might mispronounce моря. Мо́ря is the genitive singular, 'of sea', while моря́ is the nominative/accusative plural, 'seas'. When pronouncing words in isolation, TTS might not have enough context to place the stress correctly.

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
    AnCatDubh
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    Why on earth is there no explanation of stress shift anywhere so far? This is one of the hardest aspects to get used to in Russian and yet nothing is written here about it, let alone declension paradigms appearing in the dictionary like with verbs in the first five courses.

    3 years ago

    [deactivated user]

      According to Zaliznyak, Russian nouns have 12 different stress patters, of which 6 are commonly used, and another 6 are only encountered in ~40 words. The common 6 patterns are assigned letters from a to f.

      Each stress pattern is determined by the place of stress in

      • singular forms,
      • nominative plural forms (for inanimate nouns, also in accusative plural),
      • genitive, dative, instrumental and prepositional plural forms (for animate nouns, also in accusative plural).

      For each of these, the stress can be placed at the stem or at the ending, and the models are described like this:

      • a: fixed stress on the stem,
      • b: fixed stress on the ending,
      • c: stress on stem in singular, on ending in plural,
      • d: stress on ending in singular, on stem in plural,
      • e: stress on stem in singular and in nominative plural, stress on ending in plural in oblique cases,
      • f: stress on stem in nominative plural, on ending elsewhere.

      Here's the same thing as the table from «Ударение в современном русском склонении»:

      table from

      And here are the some examples:

      examples

      As you can see by «стол», when the word is expected to have stress on the ending, but the word has no ending, the ending shifts to the last syllable of the stem («губˊ» → «гу́б», «столˊ» → «стóл»). The same is true for gen. pl. forms that can take zero ending too («зеркалˊ» → «зерка́л»).

      Also, when the stress is on the stem, it can be on different syllables of the stem. Obviously, you need to know not only the stress pattern, but also the syllable of the stem.

      You can see the stress patten in the Wiktionary. In English Wiktionary, it's marked in the 'declension' box header like this: «Declension of мо́ре (inan neut-form soft-stem accent-c)». 'Accent-c' is what we need. In Russian Wiktionary, it's marked like this: «2-е склонение (тип склонения 2c по классификации А. А. Зализняка)». 2c is what we need, c is the stress pattern.

      For verbal accents, you can get some information here: http://www.alphadictionary.com/rusgrammar/accent.html

      Hope that helps.

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
      AnCatDubh
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      Hey, the images are gone now...

      1 year ago

      [deactivated user]

        Sorry, I don’t have the PDF with me right now... I’ll try to find where I got those tables from and re-add them this week ^^'

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
        AnCatDubh
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        • 1436

        THANK YOU

        3 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
        AnCatDubh
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        • 1436

        Are there any indications I can use to determine which stress pattern a noun or a verb belong to?

        3 years ago

        [deactivated user]

          Well... The rest of the Zaliznyak's work is dedicated to this, but complete description takes 11 pages of text. :D

          Basically, he divides all nominal words into several groups:

          • group 1: declinable masculine nouns with zero ending, ending -ь or -й
          • group 2: neuter or masculine nouns ending in -о, -е, -ё; or neuter nouns in -я
          • group 3: feminine and masculine nouns in -а or -я
          • group 4: feminine nouns in -ь
          • group 5: pluralia tantum nouns
          • words of adjectival declension (слова адъективного склонения): adjectives, nouns declined like adjectives (столо́вая 'canteen', рабо́чий 'worker') and ordinal numerals
          • words of pronominal declension (слова местоимения склонения): pronouns,
          • numerals (except ordinal)

          And here's a table of possible stress patterns in each group (you might want to open the table in separate window if it's too narrow in Duolingo):

          stress by group

          Boldface means that more than 100 words in this group belong to this stress pattern. Italics show that 100 but 10 words belong to this pattern. Brackets mean that only isolated words from this group belong to this stress pattern.

          3 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
          AnCatDubh
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          Aaaand Lingot.

          Wait, so what does the grave accent instead of acute mean?

          3 years ago

          [deactivated user]

            Probably a typo.

            Sometimes grave accent is used for secondary stress, and in pre-revolutionary publications grave accent was used on last syllable to imitate Ancient Greek diacritics. However, I see no reason why it's used in this very case.

            3 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
            AnCatDubh
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            • 1436

            What about verbs? Is there any indication there?

            3 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/Immanueldavid

            THANK YOU

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/daughterofAlbion
            daughterofAlbion
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            That was the best explanation of stress that I have found - please accept this Lngot

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/zest16
            zest16
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            Then how would we translate "the restaurant is near the sea"?

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/an_alias
            an_alias
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            I'm not certain, but I suspect the clues would be in the punctuation. Here there is none so it's clearly not a sentence.

            If there were at least a full stop/period with a possible em-dash between ресторан and возле? I would read it as a sentence.

            I'm terrible at Russian punctuation and I'm guessing.

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/Kaydc1

            моря vs море is it because of the preposition?

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/NoahOone
            NoahOone
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            Yes, genitive case.

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/flootzavut
            flootzavutPlus
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            Yes.

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/_Maria_B._
            _Maria_B._
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            Being an American natively, we would normally say "by the sea". Is that a different translation? Thanks for your reply!

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/sheecko
            sheecko
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            Just want to keeped up to date to this topic

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/paulroubin

            How is "by the sea" wrong

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/GeritheGreedy
            GeritheGreedy
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            To be a sentence, would it have to be 'Возле моря ресторан.' ? Thanks for the help.

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/psychicist
            psychicist
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            When you listen to the pronunciation of the single word моря (marya) and the whole sentence (morya), you can hear a difference. I presume "morya" is correct.

            2 years ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/levisjeans9

            The restaurant by a sea? Is this possible or is there a grammatical thing I am missing?

            1 year ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/YuYauHing

            Is рестарант рядом моря a replacement in this case?

            1 year ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/IvanChekhov

            You misspell the world restaurant, it should be ресторан. If you want to use word рядом (which means 'near') it becomes a bit complex. You have to use the preposition before the word 'sea' and sea should be in so-called instrumental case: ресторан рядом с морем. The simplest version I would use, which is totally correct, is: ресторан у моря.

            1 year ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/simka321
            simka321Plus
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            "The/a restaurant is on the seaside" must be included as a possible translation.

            1 year ago

            https://www.duolingo.com/Lahav862043

            "The restaurant is near the sea" was marked wrong. Why?

            5 months ago
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