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"Ĉu vi scipovas rajdi ĉevalon?"

Translation:Do you know how to ride a horse?

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2 years ago

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/FredCapp
FredCapp
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Certe, mi loĝas en Koloradio.

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Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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Does anyone know whether the definitions of "rajdi" as an intransitive verb and as a transitive verb in http://vortaro.net/ have been changed or are incorrect?

If vortaro.net is correct, then I wait for the Duolingo team to render this sentence less salacious.

1
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FredCapp
FredCapp
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Laŭ la P.I.V. la transitivo de la vorto rajdi ŝanĝas kun la defino:

1 (ntr) Iri sidante sur dorso de besto kiun oni gvidas: Vi, kiuj ~as sur blankaj azeninoj.(x) kavaliroj k sinjorinoj sur ĉevale ~as tra la arbaro.(z) en rapida trotado ili ~as laŭ la vojo;(z) ~u tien, ~u al la foiro (z), (analoge) ~i sur ies ŝultroj. 2 (ntr) Veturi per ia ilo, sidante kvazaŭ sur ĉevalo: ~i sur biciklo; ~ante sur siaj migrobastono kiel sorĉistinoj.(z) 3 (tr) Esti kvazaŭ en ~a pozicio sur partnero dum koito: k laŭ la mod' ĉevala li ~is min de poste(w); ho, brava ĵokeino mia, vi ~is min sen vipo, sprono(tc). (Vidu amazono)

Do, mi komprenas de kie vi pensas pri malĉastemo, sed por la plejparto de nia uzado la vorto devas esti netransitiva.

Do, malgrandaj demandetoj; kiel oni petas, ke Duo memoru la bezonata sur por tiu ĉi frazo? aŭ ĉu la popoluzado de Esperanto donis transitivon al ĉi tiu vorto?

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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Thank you, Fred. I reported this some time ago. When "rajdas sur ĉevalo" was later again rejected as incorrect, I decided to provoke a public discussion. A cursory glance at Google search results suggested that "rajdi" is used with a transitive meaning in about 30% of the occurrences (I chuckled at one forum posting with "rajdas sur ĉevalo, rajdas biciklon").

I have no objection to Duolingo accepting the transitive use. It seems to accepted by a significant minority of Esperanto users. I leave it to the lexicographers to decide whether or when to add such a meaning to their dictionaries. Living languages change, and dictionaries are almost always well behind the frontiers of language innovations. But I have seen no evidence that the intransitive meaning of "rajdi" has become obsolescent, let alone obsolete. Therefore, it seems ill advised for Duolingo to reject "rajdas sur ĉevalo" as incorrect.

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Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gresillon.org

Mi supozas ke Zamenhof origine difinis la transitivecon de verboj laŭ modelo de naciaj lingvoj kaj tial "rajdi" estis netransitiva.
Sed kelkaj postaj E-parolantoj sentas la verbon transitiva kaj uzis ĝin tia. Oni uzas "rajdi" kiam homo aktive gvidas la ĉevalon aŭ iun veturilon, sed oni uzas "sidi" por la pasiva ago.

0
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FredCapp
FredCapp
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Laŭ mi vi havas ĝustecon. Mia unua Esperanto instruisto diris, ke oni rajdas sur io, aŭ rajdas en ĝi. Do: netransitiva.

Fakte, mi ne pensis pri tiun kiam mi unue faris tiun ĉi leciono antaŭ tri monatoj. Sed, post mi rigardis tiujn kiuj miaj kelkaj vortaroj diras pri la temo, mi certe devas verki mallongan leteron al la Duo-a stabo.

Mi dankas ambaŭ vin pro la diskuto.

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gresillon.org

In http://vortaro.net/#rajdi it is both "ntr" and "tr".

If you sit on a horse like on a chair, without interacting with the horse, then the verb is intransitive: Mi rajdas sur ĉevalo. Mi sidas sur seĝo.

If you sit on a horse like in a car, interacting with the horse or steering wheel, then the verb is transitive: Mi rajdas ĉevalon. Mi stiras aŭton.

0
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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ntr meaning 1: Iri, sidante sur la dorso de besto, kiun oni GVIDAS [EMPHASIS added]

When you go on horseback guiding it by the reins, for example, vi rajdas sur ĉevalon. An example of the nontransitive meaning: "Kavaliroj kaj sinjorinoj surĉevale rajdas tra la arbaro."

I quote the transitive meaning with examples: "Esti kvazaŭ en rajda pozicio sur partnero dum koito: kaj laŭ la mod’ ĉevala li rajdis min de poste; ho, brava ĵokeino mia, vi rajdis min sen vipo, sprono."

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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Translate the intransitive meaning 1 of rajdi: To go, sitting on the back of an animal, which one guides.

I think it is quite a stretch to suppose that the one who guides is not the one who goes. If that were the intention, then it would have been clearly stated "which is guided by another."

Consider anecdote 014 at http://esperanto-plus.ru/anekdot.htm and try to determine who is guiding the horse if not "la vakero."

Also consider the intransitive meaning 2: Veturi per ia ilo, sidante kvazaŭ sur ĉevalo: rajdi sur biciklo; rajdante sur siaj migrobastonoj kiel sorĉistinoj.

A transitive verb requires an object. You cannot eat without eating something. If you eat, then there must be something which is eaten. I can, of course, say that I am eating without telling exactly what I am eating, but you nevertheless understand that I am eating something, even though I do not tell what that something is.

On the other hand, an intransitive verb cannot have an object. For example, "go" is intransitive. You cannot go a horse, but you can go on a horse. Also, "travel" is intransitive, you cannot travel a bicycle, but you can travel on a bicycle.

In my English dictionary, "ride" (in contrast to "rajdi" with two intransitive meanings and one transitive meaning) has nine intransitive meanings and twelve transitive meanings. There are many meanings of "ride" for which "rajdi" cannot be used (according to vortaro.net). One such is the transitive meaning "sit on and manage (a horse, bicycle, etc.) so as to be carried along." There is also the English intransitive meaning "sit on and manage a horse or other animal in motion" (which corresponds to meaning 1 of "rajdi").

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gresillon.org

Sorry, English is not a current language for me. We can discuss more about this theme, but in Esperanto only, without interfering with rules and custom from our restricting national languages.

A transitive verb normally has an object with "n", but I can use this verb without object, if the sentence is clear. I always eat something, but I may not say what.

You will later see other sentences with intransitive verbs and "n", but this comes from another rule, .e.g.: Mi iras tra tra strato => Mi trairas straton

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Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BillEverett
BillEverett
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"Mi trairas straton." The verb is a transitive verb: "trairi (tr) iri trae de io, de unu flanko al la alia." There are several other transitive verbs formed from the intransitive root verb iri (and also intransitive verbs). An interesting pair is antaŭiri (transitive) and antaŭeniri (intransitive).

According to the Esperanto dictionary meaning of the transitive verb rajdi, it is nothing that I personally would want to do with a horse as my partner.

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2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gresillon.org

"kiun oni gvidas" means that somebody else guides the horse by the reins - the lady sitting on the horse only takes care not to fall down.

Transitive means an active action of 1 person/object on/against another person/object. "Bati" and "manĝi" are transitive verbs, even if the sentence dont show what I am eating or whom I am beating: "Nun mi manĝas" or "Pro tio mi batis"

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Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JoshLingo1800

Ne, sed mia amikino scipovas rajdi tiujn belajn estaĵojn :)

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Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/queenmeanie

I sort of know how to ride.... it's tough.

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Reply1 year ago