"Mężczyźni i kobiety"

Translation:Men and women

December 11, 2015

24 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/A_User

Why are chłopiec and kobieta pluralised with a "y", but mężczyzna and dziewczynka with an "i"?

December 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/vytah
  • 1324

That's actually complicated, you hit several phonetic and grammar rules at once here.

Kobieta is the most regular – nouns ending with -a after a hard consonant get -y: kobiety. The definition of hard consonants is quite complicated, I'll omit it for now.

Dziewczynka is also regular, but in Polish you never put y after k or g, so it's dziewczynki.

Mężczyzna appears as if it would be mężczyzny, but it's masculine personal noun, which have the following rules for nominative plural:

  • either add -owie, or

  • if the final consonant is hard, instead or -y use -i, with appropriate palatalization rules

  • if the final consonant is not hard, form the plural as usual

Since n is hard, you add -i and get mężczyźni.

There are no hard rules when you use -owie and when -i, so the plural of masculine personal nouns is preferably always remembered.

Chłopiec–chłopcy is simply irregular.

The details would form a several-page long essay, and I don't think this is an appropriate time for that.

December 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/RedViperMartell

What about the conversion of z to ź?

December 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Duan

I've never noticed the ź when pluralizing mężczyzna before. Does this happen in any other words? Usually the ź would just be conversion from "zi" due to grammar rules, but that's not what's happening here, is it?

December 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

it was said in the previous post:

if the final consonant is hard, instead or -y use -i, with appropriate palatalization rules

so it goes from zna (hard) to zni (soft), but z is hard by itself so it has to be softened: źni - -

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/nicodemus13b

I think it's because of the nasal 'ni' sound, rather than a 'n' and 'y' sound, so that affects the pronunciation of the previous syllable.

September 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/A_User

Thank you!

December 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/nicodemus13b

Chkopiec/ chlopcy also follows a rule. Masculine animate nouns ending in -iec, -ies, or -ek, lose the ie/e when a case ending is added, so chlopiec -> chlopcy, pies (dog) -> psy, Marek (a man's name -Mark) -> Marki. One would expect 'chlopci', however, it's altered to 'chlopcy' in order to retain the phonetic sound of 'c', rather than 'ci', which is a different phoneme from 'c' and 'i' separately. Remember the written grammar will follow what's spoken (and easier to say), so many things that look weird when written are like that because either it's easier to say, or fits in with how similar forms are spoken. (e.g. in English we have 'an' instead of 'a' for nouns beginning with a vowel because it's difficult to repeat vowel sounds- but remember, it's before a word that starts with a vowel sound, not a written/ letter vowel, i.e. we say 'this is a unique book', not 'an unique', because the 'you' sound (in 'unique') is consonantal, even though it's written as a vowel.

September 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Warboys

Could 'Ladies and Gentlemen' be an ok translation?

December 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/greg.mort

'Ladies and Gentlemen' would be 'Panie i Panowie'

December 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Diana14283

I don't hear a pronounced difference in kobieta and kobiety. Is their one?

July 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Duan

Yes. The sound at the end of kobieta should sound like the 'a' in father, while the sound at the end of kobiety sounds more like the 'i' in fit.

July 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/HotlineDoge

Kobiety - it's plural word and kobieta - it's singular. Why duolingo correct me?

June 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

Correct you to what? Because you're right...

June 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sandra_Brandt
  1. So, both words i + a mean and, right? When do you use which one?

  2. Is there a rule for which words end in plural on -i and which on -y?

December 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/vytah
  • 1324

Ad 1. It's the same as in Russian, see the following comments:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/11448928
https://www.duolingo.com/comment/11470634

Ad 2. See my comment to A_User

December 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/nicodemus13b

Yes, they both mean 'and', however, 'i' tends to be used positively and 'a' negatively, 'a' is more like 'whereas'. See the link from vytah.

September 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/alex658992

Ansjcjvicjdnndnfjvivixijsbenrigig8fuududhebrbngjgjvuchdbsnjakdofivjf would be ❤❤❤❤

March 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielleJo712524

That is correct!!

October 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielleJo712524

That is correct.

October 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Langenth

Where does the "T" sound come from in "mężczyźni"?

December 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/greg.mort

There isn’t a “t” sound there

December 30, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/yadwinder_gadari

How to pronounce "Mężczyźni" ?

February 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/spicy_wolf

You can hear a slow version of native pronounciation here: http://uk.forvo.com/search/Mężczyźni/pl/

March 20, 2016
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