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  5. "Nowi chłopcy mają stare psy."

"Nowi chłopcy mają stare psy."

Translation:The new boys have old dogs.

December 11, 2015

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Why is it "nowi" instead of "nowe?" I was shocked to see nowi with chopcy yet stare with psy, seeing as they are both masculine and plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Szparag

Probably I'm not the right person to explain this as I'm not a teacher and I feel like all my grammar knowledge just disappeared since I was going to school... ;) Anyway, plural nouns can be masculine or feminine and masculine plural nouns can be personal (chłopcy) or non-personal. (psy). When it comes to non-personal nouns the adjectives bahave like the feminine ones. That's why it is "nowi chłopcy" (masculine personal) but "nowe psy" (masculine impersonal) and "nowe dziewczynki". (feminine) Check out this article. Scroll down to "Adjectives", there's a nice table showing the declension of "dumny". Wikipedia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bluthbanana87

By "personal" do you mean literally "describing a human person"? I've always thought that plural adjectives were categorized as either masculine animate and masculine inanimate/feminine/plural, and using those two categories, "pies/psy" would definitely be in the former, but apparently it's in the later. That'd make sense if it was personal rather than animate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vengir

The masculine gender is divided twice. In singular what matters is the animate-inanimate distiction. In plural it shifts into male-personal and everything else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vytah

In plural, the only difference is between masculine personal and everything else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AaronTupaz

Can you please explain the difference between personal and non personal?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vytah

Personal nouns refer to people, non-personal (or impersonal) refer to anything else.

All personal nouns also count as animate.

The difference is only in the masculine gender in plural, since personal masculine nouns get their own set of endings for adjectives, verbs, numerals and themselves. All the other nouns: non-personal masculine, all feminine, and all neuter; get lumped into one pile called "non-masculine-personal" or something like that.

So in this sentence we have "chłopcy", a masculine personal noun in nominative plural, and "psy", a masculine animate but nonpersonal noun in accusative plural (which, for non-masculine-personal, is equal to nominative). That's why the adjective "nowy" gets the -i/y ending with shifted consonant, and the adjective "stary" gets the -e ending.

I think you should find some declension tables for adjectives online.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bluthbanana87

So you really only use the masculine plural adjective forms when describing male humans (or groups with at least one male human)?

That's kind of crazy weird. Are there any other languages that do this? I imagine other West Slavic languages do, but what about other Slavic languages in general, like Russian or Ukrainian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vytah

AFAIK out of all major Slavic languages, only Polish distinguishes personal animate and impersonal animate.

East Slavic languages do not distinguish genders in plural, they only distinguish animacy, regardless of the singular gender of the noun.

Czech, Slovak, Serbian and Croatian distinguish between 3 genders in the plural, with some weird rules for mixed-gender expressions. Czech and Slovak also preserve animacy, but in plural masculine only. South Slavic languages do not preserve animacy in plural.

So it goes like this (parentheses contain N/G/A):

Masculine personal (robotnik/dělník/работник):
Polish: A=G (robotnicy/robotników/robotników)
Czech: 3 different forms (dělníci/dělníků/dělníky)
Russian: A=G (работники/работников/работников)

Masculine animate impersonal (pies/pes/пёс):
Polish: A=N (psy/psów/psy)
Czech: 3 different forms (psi/psů/psy)
Russian: A=G (псы/псов/псов)

Feminine or neuter animate (kobieta/žena/женщина):
Polish: A=N (kobiety/kobiet/kobiety)
Czech: A=N (ženy/žen/ženy)
Russian: A=G (женщины/женщин/женщин)

Any inanimate (stół/stůl/стол):
Polish: A=N (stoły/stołów/stoły)
Czech: A=N (stoly/stolů/stoly)
Russian: A=N (столы/столов/столы)

More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender#Slavic_languages


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Perfect! Thanks a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jesuis89

So it can't be starzy psy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Szparag

Nope. You could say "starzy chłopcy" (a bit weird, but you could. :D) but "stare kobiety", "stare psy", "stare książki/meble/ubrania".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vidfarne

Not weird if it means oldboy, not old boy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/luless

Oldboy doesn't translate nicely into Polish. You can say something like 'sportowiec-weteran' or use English word oldboy in Polish way: Oldboys competition - Zawody oldboyów. I am not sure if this is 100% correct way of writing. Borrowed words have their own rules. This is definitely not a topic for Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michmo
  • 1822

Zawody oldboysów


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bluthbanana87

Does "oldboy" actually mean anything in English, or is it just a reference to the Japanese movie (and its American remake)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/asterisq

It can refer to a male who attended a particular university or school. Old boy not oldboy


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LozNoz

Andrew Wang I'm a native English speaker. I've heard people refer to old men as old boys - it seemed to be a term of affection & maybe a reference to them still having quite a lot of energy/youthful spirit


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cjnewell31

So when should I use starzy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

To say "old" about a group of people which has at least one man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Damo_0104

No, starsze psy means older dogs


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablitoz1

Mistake of the year: "new boys are old dogs" My observational skills are lacking, how did i miss that ):


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heinz720829

Why not only: new boys have old dogs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Although a lot less probable, it is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BloodTypelV

kinda weird phrase tho

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