Proper placement of "Me and my friends"?
In English we say "My friends and I" and it is considered incorrect to say "Me and my friends". Is that true in Spanish as well? Should I say "Yo y mis amigos" or "Mis amigos y yo" or does it matter?
Gracias de antemano.
El burro delante pa' que no se espante... Mis amigos y yo is the correct and most educated way to say it
Mil gracias. Looking up the idiom you offered I found this...
"When you walk while guiding a horse, you walk in front of it (you lead it: lo cabestreas). Donkeys and mules are different: you guide them by letting them walk in front of you (you drive them: los arreas), otherwise they can get spooked. That's why mule drivers are called mule drivers (arrieros) and not mule leaders." I learn something new everyday. :-)
"My friends and I" is correct as a subject (My friends and I enjoyed a couple of beers.) "Me and my friends" is correct as an object (They sent packages to me and my friends).
Good point. You are correct. As an object, "to me and my friends" is correct.
Moreover, too often I hear, "to I and my friends", which is not correct. I probably hear that as much as I hear the correct "to me." Students even write it that way in papers, and they do not understand why "to I and my friends" is incorrect, even though they will correctly write "to me" and they will not say "[give it] to I"
SGuthrie0, would your students also say the non-correct give to we (that is, my friends and me)?
Parafrances. No, they would never say "give to we." Nor is that a mistake I have ever heard, to the best of my recollection.
Nor would they say ""my friends and me" as a subject. They sometimes say "me and my friends" as a subject -- but that is not too frequent a mistake.
My students (college) come from a rural part of the state. Their high school education is generally weak; on college entrance exams, they generally are average, or below the nationwide average.
I also suspect "me and my friends" (as subject) may be a local colloquialism-- and not a nation-wide construction. I don't recall hearing it in other parts of the country (U.S.)
Thanks for asking.
If you want to be technically correct (and not everyone does), you would use "My friends and I" as the subject of a sentence. (My friends and I are going to movie). You would use "Me and my friends" if you are putting it as the object of a preposition. (He gave the tickets to me and my friends.)
Good point! I wonder how much longer this will continue to be true before it is degraded as so many others things in English.
I've already seen so many instances of "he helped my friends and I", that I suspect that many native speakers think this grammatically incorrect structure is the correct and polite thing to say.
I am inclined to agree that incorrect grammar is becoming a norm. . Many of my students (college) say, "he gave it to Joe and I." ( Should be "to Joe and me" ) I also often see that mistake in papers I grade.
A few grammatically correct phrases just sound awkward ("That's me") and I tend to allow myself to use the incorrect form so I won't sound stuck up or "highfalutin." (pretentious).
I also find myself "dumbing down" my vocabulary. I find that many students don't understand many words that I consider "normal," or standard vocabulary, nor will they ask the meaning.
Yup, that's how language changes over time... At the time, people (those who do know the grammar) are horrified, and most of the next generation just takes it in their stride, hardly noticing that any change has taken place. So I also don't feel guilty or pretentious about being horrified, that's just my allotted role in this process. :-)
I have the same feeling very often.... imagine "siblings"... you realize pluzzed looks staring at you, and clarify "that means brothers and sisters".... and then you are replied "why didn't you say brothers and sisters then?, wy don't you use normal words?"*
also happened to me very recently in Spanish with "indeleble" and "decimonónico".
( I also use several registers, but several, not the same non cultivated one in any context!!!!: I still believe there is a place and moment for "what's up, dude?" and another one for "good afternoon")
In english, as in spanish and portuguese, you can say it both ways. :) I don't know which is more common in spanish but I would say it's "Yo y mis amigos".
In Spanish, Johnnyplot, despite being "Yo y mis amigos" gramatically correct, that order is definetly rude, uneducated.... and every mother, father and granny would ask you not to be rude.
YOU should ALWAYS appear the last of the list when speaking Spanish.
Mind not only grammar, but manners!!!!!
Thank you! I never realized it was so important. In portuguese it doesn't matter if we say "Eu e os meus amigos" or "Os meus amigos e eu". No one will reprimend us for that and we will not pass for uneducated or rude because it isn't (in portuguese). Next time I'm in Spain or speak spanish, I'll definitely remember that. =)