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https://www.duolingo.com/gabzerbinatoEng

S after Är

gabzerbinatoEng
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Okej, this is something that has been confusing me as I go through the course. Sometimes the TTS pronounces the S after the Är like the "sh" sound, but sometimes not.

I'm focusing on the "standard" Swedish, so how should I pronounce the S afterwards? I know the pronunciation of Är really changes according to the region, so does it happen the same with the S?

Tack så mycket

2 years ago

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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The R in "är" is silent in all but very emphasized uses, so there is no RS combination to trigger there. S after "är" are perfectly normal.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gabzerbinatoEng
gabzerbinatoEng
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Tack så mycket :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MickeytheGreat
MickeytheGreat
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Wait, really? So är is pronounced just like est in French, then?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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Naah, är is a long E-sound or Ä-sound, depending on your dialect, whereas est is a short one.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joel__W
Joel__W
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Isn't it mostly short when unstressed though? "Den är bra" would be a short ä-sound i.e. [ɛ] for me in most cases, except if I wanted to stress that it actually is good (Den är bra!) - then it would be a long ä-sound [ɛː].

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina
Zmrzlina
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That is probably true though, I guess. Although to me, in "den är bra", there would be two different e-sounds. I'm not familiar enough with IPA vowels to explain them however.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joel__W
Joel__W
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Yes, the quality might differ between speakers, but I think it's safe to say the length of är can vary depending on if it's stressed or not.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Holli67
Holli67
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Yeah, I noticed that R followed by S is pronounced as SH, for example "jag talar svenska" - R and and S form a SH, so it sounds like "jag tala shvenska". Maybe some of the native speakers can help.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia
Ezkertia
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Technically it's a retroflex s (/ʂ/ in IPA), so it's articulated slightly differently than English sh (/ʃ/), but the sound is very similar.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Joel__W
Joel__W
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Well, depends on what you mean by "technically". Retroflexes are described as such in the literature, and it makes sense to describe them as retroflex since they arise from a rhotic + dental consonant. However, as a native speaker I can say that I at least definitely vary between a retroflex and a postalveolar realization. I think most of the time, it's postalveolar, or weakly retroflexed. A marked retroflexion sounds stranger to me than a weak one, if that makes sense.

Edit: I would like to stress that this applies to all the dental consonants /t d s n l/ when they follow /r/. English speakers tend only to notice [s] vs. [ʂ], but the contrast is just as important for the other dental and retroflex consonant. Except for [l] vs [ɭ], which are not always contrastive.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gabzerbinatoEng
gabzerbinatoEng
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Thank you for being one of the few here who know IPA :D But since there is no /ʃ/ sound in Swedish, /ʃ/ and /ʂ/ would be allophones, not causing ambiguity and/or understanding trouble. I believe the same cannot be said about Polish though.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ezkertia
Ezkertia
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IPA is great. It provides a medium through which one can make precise claims about phonetics. I know not everyone here is familiar with it, but it wouldn't be hard for someone to learn enough to understand what's being discussed here, and I can't imagine having this kind of discussion without it.

I can't speak to the situation in Polish, but you're absolutely correct that in Swedish, saying /ʃ/ instead of /ʂ/ should be entirely unproblematic. I point out the difference for two reasons: to point people who really want to say it like a Swede in the right direction, and to help people understand why on earth r + s would ever make this sound. It's not obvious why they should become /ʃ/, but it's quite intuitive (at least to those with some exposure to articulatory phonetics) that they would be coarticulated as /ʂ/.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sustained
sustained
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The reason it happens is because of the tapped "R". When you put your tongue in position to tap the "R", as a consequence you get the "SH" sound when an "S" follows.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pipan87
Pipan87
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Yeah, you can actually use logic in many cases by paying attention to the tongue position of the ending and beginning of words that sit together and then place the tongue somewhere in between, so it slides between the two positions. That's why you get a "sh" sound, when you go from R to S.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pipan87
Pipan87
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Good, and the "g" in Jag is usually silent too, so "ja tala shvenska".

2 years ago