"Źli ludzie."

Translation:Bad people.

December 16, 2015

30 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/conor.raff

This is an interesting one. We have here a masculine personal noun. The singular form is "zły człowiek", the plural of człowiek is ludzie (highly irregular), and as regards the adjective...

"The masculine personal plural adjective ending is -y/-i and the preceding consonant is softened: dobry → dobrzy, ładny → ładni, miły → mili, wielki → wielcy, drogi → drodzy;

Swan, Oscar (2008-10-12). Polish Verbs & Essentials of Grammar, Second Edition (Verbs and Essentials of Grammar Series) (Kindle Locations 780-781). McGraw-Hill Education. Kindle Edition.

So from the third example the "ły" becomes "li", the softened version. But as someone below pointed out, the original "z" needs to be softened too, to "ź" ie. z slash.

February 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ElleLingo

I thought "człowiek" meant "human" not "person"? How is "ludzie" the plural of "human"? Could you elaborate for us beginners? Thanks

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/conor.raff

The word can mean both "human" and "person".

How is "ludzie" the plural of "człowiek"? Yes, that one stumped me! It's just a highly irregular plural form, and has to be learned.

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ElleLingo

Thanks :-)

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/MassoudSR

It has to be learned of course but czlowiek is not the root of ludzie. So ludzie is not plural form for czlowiek. Its just a plural noun. Like people is not plural form for human.

September 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Mattais

difference between Zli and Zle?

December 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/PonyDesu

złe - singular neuter (złe dziecko), plural non-masculine personal (złe kobiety, złe siostry, złe dzieci)

źli - plural masculine personal (źli ludzie, źli mężczyźni, źli chłopcy)

December 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
  1. Źli sounds off.

  2. Why is that a Ź and not a Z?

December 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/9beylu

Because ź makes a zh sound as opposed to the z in zły.

December 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh

I got that, but why is there a change to begin with?

December 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/HelioLBS

Well, in Polish (and other languages) there's what is called "a phonological agreement". Soft consonants go with soft ones and hard consonants go with hard ones. If I'm not mistaken, "l" is considered "soft" and "ł" is considered "hard". Nominative, singular, masculine adjectives usually end in "-y", which agrees phonologically with hard consonants, for instance "zły". To form its plural, we need to drop the "-y" and replace it with its soft version "-i", but the latter only agrees with soft consonants, so we need to drop the "-ł-" and replace it with its soft version "-l-", but "z" is not soft, so we also need to replace it with its soft version "ź". Then we are left with "źli", in which all three sounds agree in phonological softness. Please, everyone, feel free to tweak this explanation; I'm not a 100% sure I explained correctly.

December 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/94BlueLane

Great explanation! I'm not Polish so I cannot be sure that what you have said is 100% correct, but until someone else tweaks it I will assume that it is :) Have a lingot regardless!

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/HelioLBS

Dziękuję bardzo, 94Bluelane. :D

January 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

so do ź and ż sound the same then?

April 26, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

Absolutely not, it's зь vs ж. Well, of course not exactly that, but that's a lot better comparison than anything we can offer to non-Russian speakers.

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

so is what he wrote incorrect then?

Because ź makes a zh sound

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

I never understood why a lot of websites explain certain sounds in a way which I'd consider ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤. Not that I know how to explain it better... For example I enter this site and I see that theoretically ź is the sound at the end of the word "teach" - what the hell? Similarly with Ś, why would anyone compare it to sh-sound? But at least you could listen to examples of 'jeździć' vs 'żona' there, they are pronounced very clearly.

Wikipedia has a sound comparison between ź and ż.

But really, for a Polish person (at least for me) is hard to understand the problems that foreigners have with distinguishing between sounds that are totally obvious to us. I have no idea how to explain phonetics, unfortunately, I wish I could really help instead of just saying 'sorry but I think that's wrong' :(

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

we probably have a different understanding of how "soft Z" should sound then...

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

I just used a phrase used by another user in the comments below. To describe a sound with words, especially simple words, is not an easy task.

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

for me it was also really obvious how ś, ź, ń are pronounced before I started actually listening to the Polish pronunciations, then I got kinda confused because they didn't pronounce ś and ź (and even ń sometimes in the middle of the word) like what I would've expected (maybe it's better to say that ź is жь and not зь? tho there is really no difference between the pronunciation of жь and ж)

btw, you didn't answer the actual question: is it wrong to say that ź makes a zh sound?

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

Yes, I would say it's wrong, because in my opinion it is Ż that makes the zh sound, and Ź is 'soft Z'. But the articles mentioned in the next part of this comment find Ź and Ż sounds in many languages, but not in English, actually.

About жь... I honestly don't know, like I said, I'm not good with phonetics. For people that are, maybe it's a good idea to check the more 'phonetical' articles on Wikipedia.

This one represents Ź, and it claims that the same sound is found in Russian езжу... Polish wikipedia gives the example of жжёшь [ʑːɔʂ].

This one is for Ż and quite obviously it compares it to Russian Ж.

To sum it up from my side: I gave it some thought, and I think I'm personally just happy that foreigners from all over the world decided to learn my language, a very difficult one. If their pronunciation will not be perfect - well, let it be. I guess it's better to say czeszcz instead of cześć, than to give up on learning ;)

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

well what I meant is that in Polish "soft z" (and s) has a hush in it, and in Russian it doesn't

April 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/TFG

How so you pronounce źli?

January 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/HelioLBS

Cześć, TFG. First put the tip of your tongue behind your lower teeth, then try to pronounce the sound /3/, which is represented by "si" in "vision" for example.

January 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/TFG

Ok, so it's a soft z. Thanks!

January 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ChrisFlynn12

What is the polish for person?

August 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

Literally "person" translates to "osoba".

"People" is "ludzie", and singular "human" is "człowiek".

"Człowiek" in Polish seems to be a lot more often used than "human" in English.

August 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/yab401

what is the difference between "Źly ludzie" and "Źli ludzie"? I saw the previous comments but if I am not mistaken both version were marked as correct. (however long time ago, and I can be mistaken).

February 4, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Jellei

No, the first one is wrong, such a form doesn't exist. Generally, the adjective is "zły" with a normal Z and a Polish Ł. But masculine personal forms are usually... softened? So they do often look differently from the other forms.

February 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/yab401

Dziękuję bardzo, it is very helpful

February 7, 2017
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