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  5. "Мы съели только макароны."

"Мы съели только макароны."

Translation:We only ate pasta.

December 16, 2015

54 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

With the perfective form съели the Russian sentence answers the question "Which of the food available have you eaten/did you eat (on the particular ocasion discussed earlier)?". So the answer should be translated as "We only ate /We have only eaten the pasta". The definite article is necessary here because the perfective form always refer to a particular ocasion and we are talking about the pasta served on that ocasion, trying to emphasize that the pasta was the only food all of which was/has been eaten. The perfective also emphasizes that the pasta was finished and none of were left. If the imperfective form "ели" were used, the sentence would mean "Pasta was all we ate during the period of time in question (which is all in the past)" or "Pasta was all we were eating during that meal". The sentence would not make it clear (and it wouldn't be important) whether the pasta was finished or not. I hope I've explained clearly the difference between the Russian perfective and imperfective verbs here. It should not be confused with the difference betwen English Present Perfect Tense and Past Simple Tense. Either of these tenses can translate into both perfective and imperfective, depending on the context. Past continuous always translate into imperfective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fustincho

Most of the valuable content of Duolingo is right here, in the comments section. Thanks a lot for such well detailed information!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Loris654545

Interesting comment, thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/john.newbe

Excellent, but what about the sauce ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/patfinegan

Hooray! There is a second word in this course with the letter ъ! Until now, the only word was объяснить. I was beginning to wonder if there were any.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whity10080

Създить, подъехать, подъезд


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

съездить*


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Объект, субъект, объём, подъем, предъявить, изъян, отъезд


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dinnernugget

Хочешь макарон? Я готовлю макароны.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dinnernugget

И, четыре года назад, я ещё здесь... ...готовящий макароны.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oinophilos

Not to muddy the waters, but we could also say, "We just ate the pasta" or "We ate just the pasta." Not accepted, though. I recognize that out of context "just" is ambiguous; still, it's a softer way of excluding what was not eaten and probably more common.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reena_March

"We ate pasta only" Is it incorrect or unnatural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

We ate only pasta. Or, we ate only the pasta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolyJack

It's correct, but not entirely natural. People would only really say that if they wanted to stress "only".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

I see nothing unnatural in the sentence. How esle would you say, "(Of all the food on the plate) we olny ate the pasta (and didn't even touch the salad)"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolyJack

Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean. "We only ate the pasta" is probably the most common way of saying it. "We ate pasta only" does make sense, but it's less common and natural than the former.

Granted, this is just from my experience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

It is the Russian sentence Мы съели только макароны that I was talking about.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolyJack

Ah! No issue with that. I think RogueOh3 was talking about the English translation, rather than the Russian sentence. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Why the ъ after the с? Does it make it [sjelʲi] instead of [sʲelʲi] ("sat" plural)? That is, [s] followed by [j] rather than simply a palatalised [s]?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Yes, that's exactly the point. The С is not palatalized. So the "s" is not followed by "j" but rather followed by "jɛ" without palatalization. Otherwise the word for "they sat," сели has a palatalized Сь ("Sʲ") inside the "sʲɛ" sound.

It's less about palatalization per sé and more about separation between the prefix and the root word. The root word is ели, which is the imperfective verb meaning "they were eating," and the prefix с converts it to the perfective verb "they ate [and finished {макароны}]," but the е would palatalize the с without adding a ъ to separate the с and e


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/airelibre

Thanks for confirming, I guessed it was related to the prefix :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djule95

So the translation macaroni is incorrect? :D incredible. So how do you say macaroni in Russian?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Macaroni is correct. Just like the Russian макароны, the word refers to rather thick (unlike spaghetti) tubular-shaped pieces of pasta. Вермишель (originally derived from the Italian vermicelli - "little worms") is a different kind of pasta; it's roughly what you get if you cut spaghetti into short pieces. Вемишель used to be very popular in Soviet Russia before spaghetti became known and gained popularity. These days the word макароны is sometimes used by the older generation to refer to any pasta. The younger generation of Russians say "паста", but for most Russians the word "паста" is mostly associated with tooth paste or tomato paste, rather than "pasta".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

It makes me laugh if I hear the word паста in Russian referring to Italian "pasta." It's instantly "toothpaste" hahahaha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jozhiki

Dmitry_Arch, actually вермишель also means very thin "макароны". Maybe also short, maybe not. And it does not necessarily look like cut from long pasta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

These days the meaning of вермишель varies from one family to another. I know some Russian people who use вермишель and макароны interchangeably as they don’t care about the differences. In my youth the phrase «макаронные изделия» was used for pasta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

макароны! Growing up in my household, my parents called pasta "вермишель," named after another type of Italian pasta, "vermicelli"! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alkajugl

To me, "We only ate pasta" sounds odd. We only ate pasta. We didn't throw it at each other or at the cook. We didn't spread it on the table and make pictures with it. We didn't sew the noodles together in chains to decorate the Christmas tree. We only ate it. But "We ate only pasta," on the other hand, means we skipped the soup and salad and even the dessert and went away with only pasta in our stomachs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/isab.j

It depends on the intonation: 'We only ATE pasta' => we didn't throw it at the cook, etc. 'We only ate PASTA' => more or less the same as 'we ate only pasta'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmitry.tsarev

Если я правильно понимаю, то "we only ate" (как в "основном" правильном ответе) переводится как "мы ели"? А "мы съели" - "we have eaten"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Есть is imperfective, съесть perfective, so "мы ели" is "we were eating", " мы съели" - "we ate". "Мы съели только макароны" - "we ate only pasta", but the word order above is more common in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Мы ели would be "we ate." Что вы там делали? -Мы ели. Мы съели [что-то] would be "we ate it." Как вам еда понравилось? -Мы её съели!, meaning we finished it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmitry.tsarev

Как тогда будет "мы ели", когда имеется в виду не процесс, а констатация события, например "мы ели суп, макароны, салат и бутерброды"? Тут же "we were eating ..." не подойдёт?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Я не носитель русского языка, может быть, я не понимаю... Если я правильно понимаю, "мы съели" - мы ели а потом закончили? По-английски, "We ate (we were eating and we finished)". "Мы ели" - мы тогда ещё не закончили, да? "We were eating (but we hadn't finished yet)".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmitry.tsarev

"мы съели макароны" - да, это просто констатация факта, что когда-то (время не указано) мы съели макароны (упор на свершившемся факте, что макароны были съедены). Время не упоминается. В моём понимании тут правильнее использовать Present Perfect - "we have eaten pasta", а не Past Simple - "we ate pasta". Нет?

С "мы ели" существуют, как минимум, 2 варианта, в зависимости от контекста: 1) "мы ели макароны" (подразумевается точка времени в процессе поедания). "Что вы делали вчера в 6 часов вечера? Мы ели макароны". Тут я согласен с "we were eating", всё понятно. 2) "мы ели макароны" (просто информирование о том, какой именно продукт ели). Например, "мы ели макароны" (а не рис или картошку). Вот тут, как я понимаю, нужно использовать Past Simple - "we ate pasta".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alex_tv80

"Что вы съели сегодня на завтрак" - не могу сказать, что это неправильно, но для меня это звучит немного странно. Примерно, так: Я знаю, что вчера у нас были макароны, картошка и борщ. На завтрак вы что-то из этого съели - что именно? )))

"Что вы ели сегодня на завтрак" - звучит более обычно ))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Спасибо за объяснение. Мы когда-то съели макароны, время не упоминается, да, "we have eaten pasta". Но в других случае, может быть "we ate pasta" тоже правильно. "Что вы съели сегодня на завтрак" - съели, не ели, да? Или я неправильно научилься.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmitry.tsarev

Да, Вам тоже спасибо за объяснение.

Объясню, откуда изначально взялся мой вопрос. По-русски "съели" однозначно гарантирует, что макароны съедены, поэтому я в первом вопросе и написал про "we have eaten", т.к. в английском, как я понимаю, Present Perfect тоже гарантирует, что действие завершилось. Что касается Past simple ("we ate pasta")... Если я не ошибаюсь, то такая форма не гарантирует, что макароны съели? Их могли есть, но не доесть?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Спасибо. Может быть, в этом случае (мы съели только макароны) ваш пример не неточный (звучит странно?). Если "мы съели" здесь значит, что мы когда-то съели, время не упоминается, "мы только съели" - мы никогда ничего не съели, кроме макарон?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Съели может соответствовать как форме Present Perfect "have eaten", так и форме Past Simple "ate". Выбор зависит от того, указано ли время действия и закончился ли описываемый период. Так, при наличии слов yesterday, last night, last week, last year etc. слову "съели" будет соответствовать "ate". При этом "съели" означает однократное действие, после которого макарон не осталось. Многократное действие передаётся глаголом несовершенного вида "ели". Если же мы просто констатируем полное уничтожение макарон без указания времени, то "съели" по-английски будет "have eaten". "Ели" также используется и для перевода форм "were eating", "had been eating", "would eat" (обычно ели) и "used to eat" ("раньше ели", "когда-то ели").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Может быть я понимаю вас. Если мы ели макароны, не только один раз, но завтра, послезавтра, и так далее, "мы ели" правильно, хотя мы закончили? Но по-англииски, "we ate", не "we were eating".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmitry.tsarev

Имелось в виду "....не только один раз, но и вчера, позавчера и так далее"? Да, тут тоже вопросов нет, всё понятно - "we ate".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Theron126

Да, вчера, позавчера... я думал задом наперёд.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I see this is a very common discussion in the Russian course on Duolingo, the proper translation of Russian perfective/imperfective verb aspect and English past tense/present perfect/past perfect. The confusion seems to be with the words "perfect" and "perfective." They are entirely different concepts. There are no perfective/imperfective verbs in English, and there is no present perfect or past perfect tense in Russian.

Therefore, as a result, there is no direct translation "formula." English verb aspect is determined by context, so in many cases both perfective and imperfective Russian verbs can translate into the same past tense, present perfect, or past perfect, conjugation, for example.

Мы ели and мы съели can both translate as "we ate," based on what additional context is contained in the sentence. Conversely, "we ate," "we have eaten," and "we had eaten," can all translate as мы ели, again based on what additional context is contained in the complete sentence.

Both Russian speakers and English speakers make the mistake of trying to create a direct a=a and b=b translation when it can only be determined by context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R_Andersson

Despite my native language being Swedish and pasta being called ‘makaroner’ in Swedish, this gets me thinking of macaroons...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

Macaroons or macarons are cookies. The latter are merengue-based cookies similar to what we call безе ( a "kiss" in old French, by not in modern French where the word refers to making love).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

but безе and macarons are totally different, from my experience. Macarons are soft and creamy, but безе has the texture of wall plaster. LOL


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whity10080

pasta - сорт макарон, это на русском паста, разве вы не говорите макароны?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Growing up in my household, we called spaghetti "вермишель," translated from "vermicelli." Паста is paste, as in зубная паста, toothpaste


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thom844913

Can you somehow like "we only ate the! pasta and didn't taste the other dishes" and "the food wasn't very special, we only had pasta, it was a bit disappointing"? So, "only" can have the meaning of "part of" or "nothing better than". Or is it the same sentence with both meaning so that you need context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dmitry_Arch

In both of examples, we would probably say, «мы ели только макароны». The perfective verb съели emphasizes the fact that, of all the things we ate, pasta was the only dish that we finished. The other stuff was not particularly good, so we didn’t bother trying to finish it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KH40bu

The internet troll that hates people who eat pasta.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KH40bu

An actual troll goes around like the noodle nazi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie65645

When you natter back and forth in Russian in the comment section it doesn't edify the rest of us.

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