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  5. "Ani ja, ani ty, ani ona."

"Ani ja, ani ty, ani ona."

Translation:Neither I, nor you, nor she.

December 16, 2015

43 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tablokhina

Neither/nor should be used only for two objects, not three.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marks797148

Is that really a rule? Even if it were, I'd point out that this construction in English is so riddled with broken grammatical rules that are accepted these days, it hardly matters.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

No, you may have as many 'nor's as you want, the rule is that each item MUST have a nor, thwy cannot be ommited.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/warfreak2

Native English speaker here; I don't think it is wrong to omit "nor" for items before the last one. For example, this is by Rudyard Kipling:

"But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth, When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!"

And here's William Shakespeare:

"You know neither me, yourselves nor any thing"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

Yes I agree. I wonder what the best alternative is then. Probably: "None of you, her and me". Can we do any better than that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrevorChri14

Plus, as a standalone it cannot be 'she'. Possibly a safe way out is 'not me, not you and not her'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

No, 'she' and the others are perfectly acceptable as standalone, although modern usage prefers the objective forms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marks797148

Grammatically, "I" and "she" is correct without further context, but "me" and "her" is much more common. It's one of those areas where incorrect use of "me" and "she" is so common, it is now accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/warfreak2

It sounds strange in this sentence, but "she" as a standalone isn't incorrect as a rule.

Normally you would say either "she and I" or "me and her", and it only sounds strange because the order in this sentence is like "I and she" which is backwards.

(I've used "and" instead of "nor" to simplify the examples.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redvibe7

How do you know when the meaning is either or neither?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, technically the meaning is 'neither', it's just English that usually can construct a sentence either (sic!) with 'either' or 'neither'.

But "ani" surely shows negation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

To be clear, 'neither' also clearly shows negation. 'Either' can only be used in the same way if it is negated elsewhere. For example: I want neither of those = I dont want either of those.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrevorChri14

I have a translation test text for soon-to graduate students of EN philology of certain PL universities that include an ani-ani-ani structures, and none make a meaningful translation because, like here, they insist on a neither-nor-nor structure. IT DOES NOT WORK, YOUR TEACHERS ARE WRONG. You need something like: 'Not I, not you and not she', but even then we are still breaking the "who's she, the cat's mother?" rudeness rule.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lissy122428

I would say a sentence like: None of us can do it- 'Not I, nor you, nor her'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/y_ddraig_las

Would not better English be :"Neither me, you or her" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

No. You must qualify each item in the list. 'or' is a common enough variant of 'nor' here although strictly speaking it is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Popo-lsku

"Ani ja." is translatet with "Me neither." But in the sentence "Ani ja, ani ty, ani ona." me neither is not correct! But WHY???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

What would be your whole answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Popo-lsku

The following sentence sounds good for me: "Neither me, nor you, nor she." !?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

This one works.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

I don't think it should work. "Me" and "she" are different 'cases' (if I may use this word for English grammar). It should be either "Me/her" or "I/she".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Eh, why is this phrase so complicated :| We'll reject it now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmicstresshead

Neither I, nor you, nor she can be correct if the first clause of a sentence where these pronouns refer to the sibject of a sentence. Eg. Neither I, not you, nor she have enough money.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

In your "Eg", you meant "nor you" and not "not you", right?

And I think that "has" would be better than "have".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

It is definitely 'have' not 'has'. We say 'I dont have enough money', 'He doesnt have enough money', and 'She doesnt have enough money'. It would be very strange to start using 'has' all of a sudden wouldnt it? Bottom line, none of us have enough money.


[deactivated user]

    Complaint: nor I was accepted as a sentence or a standalone clause in a previous answer but here you have to start with neither.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

    From what I understand it has to be like that exactly because that was a standalone clause and here it's not.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

    •''I told them, but they dont want to clean the toilet!"

    -"Nor I, nor you, nor her! I guess we've just got a smelly bathroom now then?"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

    However, that only works because it's a continuation of the previous sentence; "they don't" is effectively "neither they", so the three following "nor"s follow more naturally.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidCarver

    I think that the most usual form in the UK would be" not me, not you and not her" - the model given by Duo is a reminder of the Polish construction but it is not everyday English, although it is not wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

    It already worked without "and", but it makes sense to allow "and" - added now.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marks797148

    Why is this so complicated? Here is a quote from WH Fowler that goes some way to explaining:

    "Complications occur when, owing to a difference in number or person between the subject of the neither member & that of the nor member, the same verbform or pronoun or possessive adjective does not fit both."

    In the example, the person changes from first (ja) to second (ty) and third (ona). To get round it, and make the same teaching point, an example might be:

    Ani konie, ani słonie, ani owce (nie jedzą mięsa, na przykład).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barry479429

    you cannot use either or with more than two options so I wrote neither we (which covers I and you) and she. It was not accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

    Well, it's a bit too much to glue translate "you and I" as "we" in Duolingo. For learning reasons, this website favors literal translations (as long as they are correct, of course).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PolishBagel

    That's the most downvotes I've ever seen. 0_o


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jack.Elliot

    not myself, nor yourself nor herself

    wonderful

    c'est l'vie

    some Lingots with a smile


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alfonso_C_

    And this is the most Lingots I have seen so far.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

    You guys need to get out more.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tadjanow

    No, that's wrong. The only time you can use neither without nor is when you are making a negative statement about a group of people, e.g. 'Neither of us knew how to do it.'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

    Surely you don't mean that. Of course it's not restricted to a group of people. What about 'Neither of the animals...'


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

    That would only work for a pair of people, not a group (which would be 'none of us'). And no, neither can refer to anything not just people, but only for two items (after which nor must be used to include another item).

    •"Have you tried refreshing the page or restarting the computer?"

    •"Yes, but neither worked!"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Popo-lsku

    I would say (and maybe i am absolutely wrong): "No one of us" instead of "Neither of us". !?

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