Wars were fought, hearts were broken and dozens of epic poems were written, burnt and then written again on account of this saying.
I had, 'I want that you eat cheese', seems like a right translation, especially considering 'the bee is in the zoo', 'I felt the cake', and 'the woman in the book has a diet'
"I want that you eat cheese" is not good English. The translation given here is exactly right, in my opinion.
It is in the subjunctive mood and is good English, but we do have a tendency to use the subjunctive mood less now in English and "I want you to eat cheese." has become more common. It should also be accepted.
I want that you eat the cheese has nothing to do with the subjunctive. the difference is that in italian this is a relative clause and in english we don't use relative clauses to say this, we use infinitive phrases.
Yes, in "I want that you eat cheese." the relative or subordinate clause would be in the subjunctive mood in English. Currently, our preference would be to use the infinitive phrase instead of the subjunctive subordinate clause, but it is grammatically correct also. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive
The only time "I want that you" appears is in screenplays where a foreign character is written as speaking broken English.
I would politely beg to differ, we use the subjunctive less and less, but it lurks under the surface. I want that you eat cheese is subjunctive, but just not the way we would express it in modern speech
It states a desire for an unreal state that does not reflect the current situation. It's subjunctive.
Yes, I have less time than before, precisely why someone would tell me this sentence to try to get me to take a break, but cheese is quickly eaten when correctly motivated if I actually took the time to eat it.
"I want you eat cheese." is just wrong. "I want that you eat cheese." is not technically wrong, but we just don't use the subjunctive much and our preference is to use an infinitive here: "I want you to eat cheese." So you need to learn this form to use it on a regular basis. We need to translate one common expression for another common expression. The thing to realize is that "to eat" is our infinitive form and the "to" is part of that.
"I want that you" is NOT an expression in English. It does indeed translate to "I want you to."
You may want to study the subjunctive in English, but you are correct that the expression to use in English is "I want you to" as people are not likely to use the subjunctive anymore here in English. The subjunctive does exist in English and it is helpful to some people to understand the Italian which requires the subjunctive.
"I want you to" IS the form in English. Yet again, the only time "I want that you" appears is in screenplays where a foreign character is written as speaking broken English. It is not said ever, but ever, but ever, by native speakers.
It is not good English...maybe 200 years ago but certainly not today. It should not be accepted. It should be left in the past.
Duolingo has a problem of giving really bad translations in the practice. And then you get to the discussion, and the translation makes sense. I don't get it.
oftentimes it just adjusts the translation to the closest one of yours, not necessarily showing the correct one, just the closest version to yours possible
Reading all these comments, I think I'm going to have to go back to school to learn english all over again!! "Subjunctive, infinitive phrases, relative clauses". Hells bells! You've lost me totally! I haven't been to school since the 1950's, and certainly don't remember any of these things, even though I got a Credit in my 'O' level exams for english language (which were the exams of the day!)
Ha Ha I know what you mean, I was also at school in the 50's. You don't always need to know the grammatical terms to get the grammar right, you can learn that it sounds right or wrong. However sometimes the terms do help. I have learned more about English Grammar since I have been learning Italian, than I ever learned at school. Just take your choice about whether it helps you or hinders. At times explanations make it worse. Sometimes I just learn a phrase or construction with no idea how it works, I heard enough people say it.
I am from the 50's and I also have learned more about English Grammar since I been learning Italian. Who would think?
That goes to show Duolingo's flaw because this should not be a discussion about English grammar when this is a lesson in Italian. Far too many of the questions involve translating into English, which is an utter waste of time.
It is a conjunction linking a subordinate clause to the sentence. http://italian.about.com/library/word/blwordofday1359.htm http://italian.about.com/od/grammar/a/italian-subordinating-conjunctions.htm
I suppose it would sound weird without it, just like "I want you eat cheese" sounds weird without "that" after "I want".
It is. "mangi" is also the subjunctive form for "tu". http://italian.about.com/library/verb/blverb_mangiare.htm
Thank you I wondered if that might be the case. Just haven't learned Italian subjunctive yet
I know, I thought the exact same thing when I saw this sentence! Maybe it's a slightly more eastern thing...Romanian (which is, btw, the only Romance language Duolingo doesn't have, and the one that I actually wanted to learn...) uses subjunctives weirdly too.
If Duolingo were to add Romanian and Latin, I don't think I would ever leave this site!
It is subjunctive, Caro! Mangi is also 2nd person singular present subjunctive.
That would be a totally different meaning. That would be correct for "Voglio il formaggio che tu mangi." (I am not a native speaker though.)
'Learning a language is not like for like translating words-- seldom was spoke a truer word. I think this is a less than felicitous sentence for Duolingo, on the other hand, you've got to learn sooner or later. As a native speaker of Dutch I can testify that Dutch and German also use the construction with 'that' -- in fact, the construction 'I want you to...' and 'I don't like you to...' is typical for English. For those Latin buffs among us: it's a remnant of the old accusativus cum infinitivo.
some body please explain the necessity of using 'che' in the sentence. Thanks :-)
The conjunction "che" is used to join the main clause with the dependent or subordinate (not relative) clause. The conjunction is required in Romance languages (i.e., Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, French), but not in English.
Thanks for your comments Confusedbeetle! I know you don't have to know all the correct terms, specially in english when you are english, but thought it might help for the italian side of things, though with my brain power, I doubt it. I definitely know what sounds right in english - no "they was going down the road" or "do you want them ones" for me!! I have put what I know english people would say in some answers, and have been marked wrong, so will have to learn the hard way. Glad to hear there are a couple of other people of a 'certain age' trying to do this. My son set it up for me never dreaming that I would actually 'have a go'. My daughter-in-law is Sicilian so I have a valid excuse to try, even he (said son) hasn't ever bothered)!
Could someone please explain to me where the (to) come from as i dont understand.
"to eat" is the infinitive form in English equivalent to "mangiare". In English, the subjunctive form would be "I want that you eat cheese." but the subjunctive is not used very much in English and we use "I want you to eat cheese." which must seem strange to people of other languages. "I want: " often uses an infinitive form afterwards, what is strange is that we have a pronoun that seems to be the object of want and the subject of the infinitive "to eat". This form does not seem strange to English speakers and it is quite common and used often in place of the subjunctive form and to soften an imperative, especially by parents to their children. "Go to your room." is softened to "I want you to go to your room.". "Eat your vegetables." is "I want you to eat your vegetables." "He should wait for me here." is softened to "I want him to wait for me here."
Can someone please explain to me what 'che' actually means? So far, I've gotten: 'what', 'and', and 'that'. Although, in this sentence, it seemed to have no meaning at all
che agg= what pronoun=who, whom, that,which cong after comparative=than here =that So you need to know the context. In this case Literally I want that you eat cheese although clumsy English shows you that it is subjunctive in both languages. It is a very important clue whenever you see a che you get a clue a subjunctive is coming, quite helpful really
Well, that definitely helps to clear things up, a bit. Though, I have no idea what a subjunctive is o_o
Well you have a treat in store! It is the tense used for all issues of doubt, uncertainty and emotion. In this case, I want you to eat cheese (but there is no certainty that you will) It is used a lot in Italian and still a little in English " If I WERE rich I would by a car, BE it large or small,. In Italian follows phrases like Credo che, penso che, spero che, e' importante che , loads of phrases that end in che and words like benche', Its not too tricky, look out for the CHE
What would "Voglio tu mangi formaggio" mean? And is there any other way to say "I want you to eat cheese"?
No. It has to be this way. English is out of line with many languages using the infinitive in this way. You just need to remember the construct volgio che + subjunctive. Easy really
Ho tradotto: I want you eat cheese: errato! Mentre il computer, sapientino traduce: Voglio che tu mangiare formaggio. Augh!
"I want that you eat cheese." is the correct answer using the subordinate subjunctive clause, but in English the subjunctive is less used and a new construction exists which English speakers are accustomed to, but looks strange to people of languages which use the subjunctive. In English we use "I want you to eat cheese". and we understand it to mean "I want that you eat cheese." but for some reason our version with the infinitive sounds better to us and the other version sounds like old English and almost foreign. When you say the computer translates it that way, what are you using? I hope you are not using "google translate"! Some expressions and grammatical constructions are different from one language to another and cannot be translated word for word which is what that program does.
che has to be used in this sort of expression folllowed by the subjunctive
If a parent wants you to eat something, it is a bit stronger than a wish that may or may not come true. There could be a consequence such as no dessert if he doesn't eat what he is supposed to. On the other hand, wish can be a more polite form.'
Could we also say this, "Te voglio mangiare formaggio"? Grazie mille per le vostre risposte.
I must be dim because I cant see where the 'che' comes into it. Is it necessary?
Alves_Tiago. You commented under the "Lui cucina nella cucina" sentence (that I don't know the location of anymore), that you're surprised that it's taken me 82 days to learn "only 15 lessons". I go back over each lesson lots of times to try and remember them, so of course it's going to take a long time. Please don't pass judgement on someone you don't know, and have no idea of their capabilities or age (I'm old enough to be your grandmother!!) We're not all young know-it-all clever clogs!!
as one grandmother to another, we can make surprising progress without losing energy being rude to each other, keep it up and do it in your own style and time
So is subjunctive the same as indicative in this case? I guess we still have the subjunctive in store for us.
Mangi can be the second person indicative, third person imperative, or 1st, 2nd or 3rd person subjunctive depending on the context. In this case the clue is in the CHE which is followed by the subjunctive
This didn't make any sense to me at all. Then I read the comments... I guess it's supposed to be said with the intention of "I would like for you to eat cheese."
"che" means "that" here to introduce a subjunctive clause and is not the demonstrative adjective "that" which would be "quel". "che il formaggio" is used when "the cheese" is the subject of the following clause. http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-italian/that%20cheese
That means "I would like to" right? If so, would you write "Vorrei che tu mangi"?
No thank you i understand now. It's an inversion of the sentence. Not how we would usalt say it in English. I figured it out but i think perhaps a little annotation explaining this in the question itself would be very useful! Thank you :)
exps, because it isnt a specific cheese, it's chees in general. The che signifies the "want" and thats why we need the subjunctive
"I want you to eat that cheese." would be "Voglio che tu mangi quel formaggio."
The direct translation seems to be I want that you to eat cheese - I'm not sure what clues to pick up that I would use che in I want you to eat cheese - to eat looks like an infinitive but is not ..... I don't know if I'd be able to translate this on my own. Any suggestions.
although in english we would use the infinitive, in italian expressing a wish or want requires voglio che followed by the subjunctive, see other comments
No quite sure why it wouldn't be Voglio tu mangiare. Because you're saying "to eat" why wouldn't you use the infinitive form of eat- mangiare?
You cannot translate word for word. The English use of the infinitive here instead of the subjunctive is not found in most other languages. "I want you to eat cheese." used to be expressed in English a long time ago as "I want that you eat cheese." which is in the subjunctive mood and is the way it is done in Italian.
the word che meaning (what, that or Which) does not appear in the translation.
This is a pretty strange sentence when translated into English. Be that as it may, "I would like" should be just as correct as "I want", I think, because it is considered more polite in English. Less of demand and more of an invitation.
Why does "che" need to be in there? Sometimes "che" is put in sentences where it doesn't look right and it throws me off completely. Without "che" I know exactly what this says, that word always throws me off.
For an English speaker it might sound poorly, but it's completely understandable for speakers of some other languages :) Which means you have to learn it by heart, purtroppo. Don't try to apply English rules/thinking to Italian, it doesn't work.
Q: Write this in English Voglio che tu mangi formaggio . A( I understand why my answer is wrong): I want that to eat cheese
Their Answer: You used the wrong word. I want that you eat cheese. Why doesn't this translation match the one above???
I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but I speak Spanish, and I know Italian has a subjunctive mood as well. This isn't a case where you would use it?
it is, mangi is the subjunctive form of mangiare. Verbs with -are exchange it for -i.
It is, that's the tricky part about congiuntivo. With -ere it's pretty obvious, as it transforms into -a, (vedere - veda), and the form with -a is not a valid present tense for verbs with -ere. However, the thing of -are is that congiuntivo matches the present simple form of second person. Guess that saves our bums once in a while when we forget that we should use congiuntivo with these when speaking to someone ;)
Scusa, the "I want that you eat cheese" most certainly sound grammatically different from "I want you to eat cheese". Both of which were considered by Duolingo as a correct answer. Semantically, they have different meanings.
In English the infinitive form is used instead of the subjunctive form which used to be used more a long time ago, so semantics aside the meaning remains the same.
i do not understand the use of the word che in this sentence, the sentence will have the same meaning without it
Don't worry too much about understanding why, it just is. Just remember voglio che followed by the subjunctive
I wrote "I want you to eat THE cheese" and it was marked incorrect. I think, since we are learning ITALIAN here, not English, such version should be accepted.
I suppose it is very pedantic, but the difference is, cheese in general, or that particular cheese. In which case it would be il formaggio
Yes, I absolutely agree. I'm not saying my answer was 100% correct ;) But the "decisions" made by the checker are quite weird. Sometimes it fails you completely because of a small typo, and sometimes it accepts answers that IMHO it definitely should not ;)
Why is it that che(that) is in the scentence? so it should read "I want you to eat that cheese?
There is an article or preposition missing before 'formaggio'. This app seems to completely ignore this grammar rule all the time.
droginator my guess is that the article is not missing, but that it changes the meaning, as it also does in English. I want you to eat cheese (generally) as opposed to I want you to eat the cheese( that I put on your plate)
I am not speaking in theory. It does not change the meaning. The article makes it grammatically correct. Without the article, it is incorrect and an eight year old Italian could tell you so.
The answer I was given was "I want that you eat cheese". How is that acceptable English? What does it mean?
What do you want? In Italian wishes and wants are expressed in the subjunctive mood which is less used in English. "I want that you eat cheese." is correct English in the subjunctive mood, but it is more common to say "I want you to eat cheese." Both should be correct.
No,they are not both correct. "I want that you to eat cheese" is HORRIBLE English!
Rainbow350 yes it is horrible english, but it is technically correct, and although clumsy English it really does help you to get your head around the subjunctive in Italian if you think in English subjunctive
Very funny! They are each separately correct. Both sentences are correct. You would not put "that" with the infinitive. You would use either the infinitive form or the subjunctive form.
It REALLY means "I want you to eat cheese",though I thought "I want you to eat that cheese". The 1st one I told you is right.
I think some people need to put their phones , ipads, laptops down and go outside and meet people. Learning a language is not like for like translation of words
If you read all the above comments, it will make sense. The literal translation, using the subjunctive that so often follows the Che would be I want that you eat cheese. This is grammatically correct English but sounds stilted and English speakers are more likely to say I want you to eat cheese. So the To doesn't come from anywhere, it is just a more usual way of saying this phrase in English. DL sometimes seems to favour literal translation and at other times the more natural version
'I came here to chew bubblegum and kick ass' - this sentence reminds me that line for no reason at all.
Frankly I think "I want the cheese you eat" is far less creepy than "I want you to eat cheese" which sounds like a line that didn't make the final cut of Silence of the Lambs. "I want you to eat cheese, She rubs the lotion on the skin or else she gets the hose again"
clawja2, a mother might want the child to eat cheese for nutritional reasons
That makes no sense which is why I did not translate it as such and therefore lost a heart over it.
I feel the same. Voglio means "I want" by adding che, it means I want want (to me anyway)