"Turysta szuka paszportu w plecaku."

Translation:The tourist is looking for his passport in the backpack.

December 19, 2015

67 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mato841048

There is no "his" in the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ula264189

Turysta szuka paszportu. Nie ma informacji czyjego, a więc zdanie angielskie powinno byc bez "his". Zamieszczenie his zmienia tlumaczenie zdania na: Turysta szuka swego poaszportu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

English just uses such possessives a lot more than Polish does. In Polish, you just assume that it is his passport, unless it's stated otherwise.

You can also just write 'a passport' or 'the passport', it's accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Al_sol12

Is it valid to write: "The tourist is looking for the passport in HIS backpack"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SaumG

Going this way we can assume the passport was not his but hers.. or so. It is just a passport, no person needed at all


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"turysta" indicates a male tourist, so "his passport". Of course he could be searching for his wife's passport, but then we'd specify it.

"turystka" is a woman, then she'd be looking for "her passport".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stephenpeckhover

Is this possible?: The tourist is looking for their passport in their backpack, or, since it's a male tourist, should I use jego...jego (?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

Polish sentence has no pronouns. He can be looking for his child's passport in his wife's backpack for all we know. But we assume that both passport and backpack are his own. But it was clarified that the tourist is male.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie141120

Can you explain how it is clear that the tourist is male? What would it be if the tourist was female?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

turysta is male, turystka is female.

while -a is usually feminine ending, -ista and -ysta are masculine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SaraWie

But that's an assumption! An obvious one, but I don't think this is really clear in this exercise.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

It is not 100% clear, and I think "the passport" should be accepted, but this is how we talk.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mszporluk

I think broadening acceptable answers in English should be considered. I saw below that "turysta" is male (as opposed to "turystka"). That said, though in the past we would have used "his" in such situations, it is more common to use the third person plural. "The tourist is looking for their passport..." Even though the tourist is one person - the plural has become acceptable - since it doesn't presume gender. otherwise, what term is available for persons who are tourists who don't identify as male or female?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

The word 'turysta' may also be used in a general way if the gender is unknown or doesn't matter, but this Polish sentence is about a male tourist, so why should this information be ignored in the translation by using 'their'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mszporluk

if turysta can be general, how do you know the above sentence is about a male tourist?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

Well, if you know what the tourist is looking for, I'm sure you also know if it's a man or a woman ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaitlinGHu

Why can't a correct answer be "The tourist is looking in the backpack for the passport"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Seems fine, added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

I don't think so. "To look for" is a phrasal verb and should not be separated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Our English-speaking-native teammates say that it can be separable here, so if you think otherwise, we'd appreciate some sources.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

Well, here it's marked as inseparable: https://www.usingenglish.com/reference/phrasal-verbs/look.html

And, in general, those phrasal verbs which are separable can only be separated by a direct object, not by an adverbial phrase. Of course, this sentence we are referring to is understandable. And I'm not that kind of expert who could say that it's definitely correct or incorrect. But its structure has changed so much that I don't consider it as a valid translation of the Polish sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Actually my colleague suggested to check the Corpus of Contemporary American English (https://www.english-corpora.org/coca/ - search for "LOOK in * NOUN for") and there are a lot of results, so maybe theory is one thing, and practice is another...

True, the structure is kinda different, but that answer still shows that the learner understood the sentence perfectly, so if I allowed it once, I don't really want to take it back.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

I think I'm going to get along with this ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jussimr

Why it ain't accepted to write "the tourist is looking for a passport in the backpack"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RichSuch

Is it incorrect to use the genderless "their passport"? I thought that's what all the hip young kids are doing nowadays.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Hm... But isn't this a context where you either know or at least see the person? In that case I would assume that you're having difficulty determining the person's sex, which could potentially be perceived as offensive. What's your take on this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"turysta" is a man, so it's clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DommyP

Can you not say "bag" instead of "backpack"? I would use the two interchangeably to describe a backpack.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

OK, let's add "bag".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Yes, personal belongings often don't need a possessive pronoun, it's generally assumed that they belong to the grammatical subject.

And this has already been discussed thoroughly in this comment section, btw.

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/12423481?comment_id=22372016


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Musicalantonio

I believe "The tourist is looking for their passport in their backpack" should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

As already explained in this sentence discussion, the Polish sentence specifically mentions a male tourist. This information should be translated to English. Otherwise learners might get the impression that it's gender-neutral.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Musicalantonio

If you wanted to say "The tourist is looking for their passport in their backpack," in Polish, how would you say it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It seems like you may be missing the point. Sure, if you're translating some text, then you have a lot more freedom of translation and your translation is okay, despite losing some information. But when teaching a language on Duolingo, there are more restrictions imposed, and this is one of them - not losing the information about the tourist's gender. Not changing a man into a person of unknown gender.

If I were to translate that sentence into Polish and not know whom "the tourist" refers to... then I would be in a pickle, because it's often basically impossible to be gender-neutral in Polish, unless you want to write "Turysta/Turystka".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

You could start your sentence with 'Osoba zwiedzająca...' if there was a need to conceal the person's gender. But you would probably sound like you're reading from a police report.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanIanIanIan_

So Paszportu is genitive and ends with a U, and plecaku is locative and ends with a u. Is Paszport male and plecaku female ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Both are masculine inanimate / rodzaj męskorzeczowy

They follow different declension patterns

https://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/plecak declension IV

https://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/paszport declension III


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Namelessghost101

Could you say hers instead of his?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

In this place in the sentence it would be "her".

But anyway, "turysta" is a man. "turystka" is a woman.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Namelessghost101

Ahh understandable. Thx for answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akikotsukamoto

I can see that the tourist is male, still my sentence without 'his' should be accepted, since there is no " jego"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

If you replace "his" with an article (which is mandatory in English), your sentence should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WangZhangLeiYou

Would you mind to add such an option to the word bank? Without additional 'a/the' to choose from the sentence is translated rather incorrectly - 'is looking for his passport' and 'is looking for a/the passport' does have a different meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

It does have a different meaning, but both meanings are covered by the Polish sentence, so I don't see a problem here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BartoszKod1

The tourist is looking for a passport, where is there mentioned that he is looking for HIS passport? He could be well looking for a passport of his children or fioncé...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

"A/The passport" is also accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris280569

Gdzie jest jego?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Quoting from higher up the page:

(Jellei): English just uses such possessives a lot more than Polish does. In Polish, you just assume that it is his passport, unless it's stated otherwise.

You can also just write 'a passport' or 'the passport', it's accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KaterinaLina

"his" passport ???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I think this has already been discussed ad nauseam in this comment section.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Csar596340

Why "his passport in his backpack" was not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

That variant is accepted, but without knowing the rest of your answer, we can't guess why it wasn't accepted.

So, please tell us your full answer, or provide a screenshot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YuriSviatkovsky

The passport was not accepted, but it shoud be


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

As already confirmed by moderators in this sentence discussion, 'the passport' is accepted. If it wasn't accepted for you, please provide a screenshot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ewamvt

Dlaczego szuka His passport... nie ma tu ,ze szuka swojego paszportu !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

"...looking for a passport..." i "...looking for the passport..." są też akceptowane.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Uznajemy to za oczywiste, że szuka swojego własnego paszportu w swoim własnym plecaku. Gdyby szukał paszportu swojej żony albo dziecka, to byśmy to zaznaczyli.

Natomiast w angielskim zaimki takie jak "his" so właściwie obowiązkowe w takim zdaniu. Niby można użyć "a passport" ('jakiegoś paszportu') albo "the passport" ('paszportu o którym już wspomnieliśmy'), ale najbardziej prawdopodobne jest "his".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan957575

If "his passport" is accepted then "his backpack" shoul be accepted too. This isnt fair


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

"His backpack" is accepted. A screenshot would be good.....

If you made some other error, Duo will probably show you "his passport" and "the backpack" as that is the top answer in its list of 'correct' answers. That does not mean that "his backpack" is wrong,


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VclavCepel

I think there is a bag. I am adding the correct answer and it returns as wrong. Or am I missing something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

There is no bug here. You've misspelled 'backpack'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VclavCepel

Yes, sorry, my bad. It took me an hour to realize the mistake


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryCarson15

Would it not make sense to just add swojego so that we know whoose passport it is?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

If the possessive pronoun is omitted, then it is assumed by default that the grammatical subject is the possessor. If you feel the need to clarify, then you may add 'swojego', but it's not necessary.

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