"This woman likes them."

Translation:Ta kobieta je lubi.

December 22, 2015

72 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stephenpeckhover

Why is je "them"? When is that used, and when is ich used? And are there other ways to write "them"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

mię is considered old fashioned now, se is considered unpolite


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/one_half_3544

For those who want a text version of this table - it is present in the wiktionary, for example: https://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Aneks:J%C4%99zyk_polski_-_zaimki#Zaimki_rzeczowne


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gbaldacci1309

How would I copy and paste this. It is a wonderful resource!!! If I go to link from here, I lose all that I have completed in this practice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LucynaMack

You are not right. Actually "mię" in Polish language does not exist. Where do you take it from ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isaac444706

It's correct to say "ta kobieta lubi ich"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolsJose5

"Ta kobieta lubi ich" is correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philip626212

Apparently from the above it's correct but unnecessarily emphatic. That was my guess, and it got marked wrong and "corrected" to "Ta kobieta je lubi" with a gender change.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margarita213

What is wrong with "To kobieta lubi ich."?

It is correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No, that means "It is the woman that likes them" (as an answer to someone else's claim that it is the man that likes them). Also "lubi ich" will sound a lot more natural, your version puts the stress on them (and not someone else).

"To" is a pronoun for neuter nouns, it can mean "this is/these are" for any gender, but here I'd say it serves as an emphasizing particle.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marko195

Unlike Polish, in Serbian "them" (ich / je) has only one form "ih" for both genders:

Ta žena ih voli = Ta kobieta je lubi & Ta kobieta ich lubi.

It is very interesting :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philip626212

Indeed. I love the etymological similarities across the breadth of a language family, in this case obviously between "ich" and "ih."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerrickMcClure1

Do object pronouns ALWAYS come immediately before the verb in Polish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LarsFrowijn

Why is it not correct when you write "ta kobieta lubi je" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

You shouldn't put pronouns at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bcots96

So how does "je" work in this context? I know it's the object pronoun, but what is the difference between "Ta kobieta je lubi" versus "Ta kobieta lubi ich"? They seem to equate more or less to the same thing in English, but is it only a matter of preference, or...?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"Ta kobieta [je/ich] lubi" is preferable to "Ta kobiet lubi [je/ich]", because putting a pronoun at the end of the sentence gives stronger emphasis that is rarely needed/natural.

In terms of meaning: well, you remember that there are two words for "they": "oni" (at least one man among them) and "one" (no men among them, only women). Therefore "ich" is an Accuative form of "oni", and "je" is an Accusative form of "one".

Moreover, "je" is also Accusative form of "ono". While "ono" itself is rather rare, its other cases are perfectly normal. So this sentence could also be "This woman likes it", with 'it' being some noun that is neuter in Polish. For example "ciasto".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdef933419

So if a woman was eating something neuter, would it be "ta kobieta je je"

Haha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdef933419

I could even deny that I have put a pronoun at the end of the sentence, and would get away with it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yeah, the first one should be the pronoun here ;) And indeed that's a correct sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KristineKruszer

Just when i thought je was he/she eats, it has to be weird again. Heaven forbid he would eat them. Je je ;p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dean175277

I thought that too. Glad to see I'm not the only who's confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Keep in mind that there are English words which, depending on context, have over 40 different meanings, while still belonging to the same word class.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/set#Etymology_1

Here je is a pronoun, while in that other exercise it's a verb. So it's not actually that confusing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"je" is not only the Accusative "them", but also the Accusative "it" when the "it" is neuter in Polish... So "To moje ciasto! Dlaczego ona je je?" is perfectly normal for "This is my cake! Why is she eating it?" ;) Or "Dlaczego ona je je?" could of course be about something plural, like cookies, or fries.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelFil325721

Ta kobieta lubi ich tez jest dobrze bez sensu to zadanie dodajcie tez inne szyki po polsku


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maxim.Nazarenko

I've translated it as "Ta kobieta lubi ich" and it's shows as right answer. Another correct solution: "Ta kobieta je lubi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SonjaI277

For me it was treated as incorrect and I lost a heart


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Oh, actually it's a word order that we don't want to accept, we want to make sure that the learners don't put the pronoun at the end if only there's another place to put it. Removed now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex476347

Is " Ta kobieta ich lubi " right


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Svetlana351261

Why "Ta kobieta lubi ich" is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

You shouldn't put pronouns at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grzegorz773794

Why is it wrong: Ta kobieta lubi je


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Because we want to teach stylistically better translations, a pronoun shouldn't end up at the end of a sentence if possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dean175277

I thought 'je' was the verb that meant ' to eat'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"je" is a form of the verb "jeść", which means "to eat". "je" means "[he/she/it] [eats/is eating]".

But in probably every language you have words which have two or more completely unrelated meanings. This is one of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wojtek2506

Ta kobieta ich lubi - is also correct and should not be considered as a mistake.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's perfectly correct and accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DenisFell

Does the pronoun usually come before the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

The grammatical object generally comes after the verb, but if that object is a pronoun, we avoid putting it at the end of the sentence, and that results in it being before the verb.

So: "This woman likes cats" = "Ta kobieta lubi koty", "koty lubi" would be quite strange.

But "This woman likes them" = "Ta kobieta [je/ich] lubi", because we don't want the pronoun at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Simeon1969

I think you can write lubi cie or lubi ciebie but not lubi je... why is it je lubi?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

You shouldn't put pronouns at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning "lubi cię" and "lubi ciebie" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jarek7781

Ta kobieta lubi ich - whats?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Co to znaczy "whats"?

Od osób uczących się polskiego wymagamy tu szyku zdania niekończącego się zaimkiem, co uznajemy za konstrukcję... niezgrabną.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jarek7781

Może ktoś skorygowały te wszystkie niedociągnięcia?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"skorygowałby" - o to chodziło?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew176782

I thougt je was eat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

As in any language, words with completely different meanings may look the same.

Yes, "je" is also "(he/she/it) [eats/is eating]".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kinzakhan16

when we use "Ich" and when "Je" what is the difference please help


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It depends on what "them" actually refers to. There are two plurals in Polish: "masculine personal" (virile) and "not masculine-personal" (non-virile).

The first one is for 'groups with at least one man' (men, boys, people, policemen, etc.) and the other for every other plural noun (women, children, boxes, trees, dogs).

"ich" is the form for the first plural (used if "She likes them" means e.g. "She likes these boys") and "je" for the other one (used if "She likes them" means e.g."She likes these girls", "She likes those cats" or "She likes French fries").

Given the lack of context, both are equally correct translations here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeoHirschm

why not: ta kobieta lubi ich?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

You shouldn't put pronouns at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wozo13
  • 1098

them znaczy ich lub je...to dlaczego .ich. jest źle???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Nie jest źle, obie wersje są akceptowane.

Chyba że ktoś napisze "Ta kobieta lubi je/ich", ten szyk zdania jest odrzucany ze względów stylistycznych. Natomiast "Ta kobieta je/ich lubi" - oba warianty są akceptowane.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davidsk4

Ta kobieta ICH lubi? The answer could be ich or je depending on context . I disagree that only je is right. The woman could be referring to men?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

And who exactly are you disagreeing with? Several people in this sentence discussion already mentioned that both are accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davidsk4

That's okay then but I'm saying Duolingo didn't agree when I entered ich as part of the answer to this exercise. It typed the correct answer with je and I don't think I had anything else that was wrong in it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

But did you use the same word order in your answer? Because both "Ta kobieta ich lubi" and "Ta kobieta je lubi" is accepted.

But "Ta kobieta lubi je" is not (we don't accept putting pronouns at the end of the sentence), and then the correction may not necessarily be the closest one to what you answered. That doesn't mean that "je" was the problem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Davidsk4

I thought I did but I can't confirm it as I no longer have the exercise. It's taught me that next time I must make a proper note of what I wrote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Irina859494

I wrote "Ta kobieta lubi je" instead of "Ta kobieta je lubi" and got it wrong Is that really a mistake?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

It's a stylistic mistake, yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hanika867493

Would it be okay to translate it as ''Tej kobiecie się podobają"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well... at first I thought "that looks weird", because you're not saying 'what' she likes, but then I thought: OK, but if we have context and we normally have, then it will be obvious what she likes. So yes, that would work. "He doesn't think those roses are pretty, but this woman likes them".

I'm just not 100% sure if we should list it as an accepted answer, because it is quite different and needs another context...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdef933419

Can you let us know what cases are being used here?

And has the subject changed?

The -CIE ending which I know is a verb ending when for 2nd person plural.

But here kobieta seems to have the -CIE ending.

The ją ending which I know usually as the verb ending for 3rd person plural is also being used here.

Long story short... i have no idea what's going on in the comment above


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hanika867493

The subject and object just basically switched places. ''Tej kobiecie'' is the 3rd case (to whom). The verb ''podobać się'' is always connected with the 3rd case. To make it simple, you can translate it as ''to be appealing to someone''. ''Tej kobiecie się (oni) podobają.'' would then be translated as ''To this woman, they are appealing.'' Just like in Jellei's example, the context could be ''He doesn't think those roses are pretty, but to this woman, they are appealing.'' To whom are they appealing? To this woman. To whom = 3rd case.

I'm not a native English speaker, but I've studied English for many years, and to me it is very hard to explain the difference in English. ''Tej kobiecie się podobają.'' and ''Ta kobieta je lubi.'' would both be translated as ''This woman likes them''.

''Podobać się'' is generally used when you want to say that someone likes the appearance of someone or something. For example ''Podoba mi się kolega z pracy.'' = ''I like one of my workmates. (an indirect translation could be ''I fancy one of my workmates.'')'' OR ''Podoba mi się twój pies.'' = ''I like your dog''.

WHEREAS

The verb ''lubić'' is generally used to describe the things you enjoy doing (activities) and the things you like (including food, clothes, etc.). For example ''Ja nie lubię biegać.'' = ''I don't like jogging.'' OR ''Lubisz piwo?'' = ''Do you like beer?'' In this case, you wouldn't usually be talking about the appearance of the beer. The person asking this question would most certainly rather want to know whether you enjoy drinking beer/the taste of beer.

The two verbs are often interchangeable, it is just more natural to use one or the other in certain situations. Once a person gets a better ''feel for the language'', they naturally get better at distinguishing similar words. Don't worry, it will come with time.

I hope this helps! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdef933419

Wow. Thank you so much for such a complete reply. I really needed it to be explained. I won't have trouble grasping the notion of object and subject switching places, it's common in my native language, (I am hungry / hunger is (happening) to me. I am tired / tiredness is (afflicting) me, etc) but since I haven't learnt the dative case yet, the tej and kobiecie threw me off.

But alik has responded too now, so I mostly understand now.

You used lubisz piwo as an example where it refers to the idea/concept/notion of beer as opposed to the appearance. But we have learnt "lubisz go?" in this course. Would that be his character/personality or appearance? Cos you used podobo mi się to refer to your work colleague.

Anyway, as you say, once we get a better feel for the language/culture etc, we'd understand which verbs serve which situations better.

Thanks again


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Subject and object have switched places.

"Tej kobiecie" is an indirect object, so it takes the dative case. The dative ending here is -ie, so the stem ending of "kobieta", which is [t] gets softened (palatalised) to [ć], with the diacritic omitted because there's an [i] after it.

Translated literally, it will be: "They appeal to this woman." or even more literally: "To this woman [they] appeal".

Since the woman is the "receiver of the appeal", she is in the dative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abcdef933419

Thanks Alik.

Your reply combined with her reply above, has been helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hanika867493

Thank you, it's just nice to know that what I wrote wasn't incorrect. <3 It was the first translation that came to mind. Like you said - it's all about the context, which wasn't specified.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Konstelacja_

Ta kobieta lubi je ... Przecież to jest dobrze - po polsku jest prawidło !!

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