1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Polish
  4. >
  5. "Do these men know them?"

"Do these men know them?"

Translation:Czy ci mężczyźni je znają?

December 23, 2015

83 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamMlodoz

When do you use "je" and when do you use "ich" for them?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NishuPL

Je - group of women, ich - group of men or women with at least one man. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dimitrios2608

Thanks, does it say women anywhere in the clue, that could tell us to use je instead of ich?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No. You have to choose yourself whether you will decide that 'they' are only women or there is at least one man among them. Nothing in this sentence suggests any of those answers, they are equally correct.

In real life you'd have context = you'd know whom you're talking about, so then of course you choose the word accordingly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alicia435669

It still does not accept ich.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"[Czy/] ci [mężczyźni/ludzie] [je/ich] znają?" are accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bogdan684871

this is not accepted: Czy ci mężczyźni znają ich


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

It's not accepted because there's a pronoun at the end, which should be avoided if possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Polski_Kajakarz

There is no context. Ich should be accepted, no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

Not in the last position.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jolUo2

a co jeżeli jest paru facetów i ani jednej kobiety co to za tłumaczenie i czemu nie zaliczyło ich skoro też jest poprawnie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

Most likely the pronoun "ich" was at the end of the sentence, which should be avoided, if only possible. The sentence is accepted with "… ich znają."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/the-shiny

For "these" men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PuertoRico_7213

Oh I see now, thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan732375

As I don't know whether a man is in 'them' or not, why isn't 'ich' accepted but only 'je'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Both are accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JakobSagan

it isn't accepting both


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It is. Perhaps you're one of those people that answer "czy ci mężczyźni znają [ich/je]"... this isn't really a good word order, you shouldn't put a pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it. And you can here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karolts

"you shouldn't put a pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it" - Can you give the source of this rule? I think this sentence "Ci mężczyźni znają ich" is consistent with the rules of the Polish language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's not wrong, it just gives an emphasis that rarely makes sense. The stress in the Polish sentence goes at the end, most important informatation goes at the end. So "Ci mężczyźni znają ich" is like "These men know THEM". Sure, you can say that, especially in rapid speech that wasn't carefully thought through, but we try to teach people to avoid doing it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blue180064

When can't you avoid it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

In a short sentence, like "Oddaj je!" = "Give them back!" or "Oddaj mi je!" = "Give them back to me!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rup175840

Would the order of je and znają mąkę a difference? So is ... Znają je correct (would be more natural to a native English speaker) thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's acceptable, but not recommended. It gives a strange emphasis on the pronoun. Not that natural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ja_rek

ci mężczyźni znają je - should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

We generally don't accept sentences where pronouns are at the end, unless there is no other option.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ja_rek

You can be right, this is colloquial speech


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrevorChri14

I am now on level 4 and it is still not sticking. Too many pronouns to learn in one go, in too many structures. It is no good saying one should not put a pronoun at the end, and then use them that: 'mamy ją'. When is the cut off between the two? Perhaps do the range of pronouns first, then a later section for the earlier position, or something like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

With "mamy ją" there is no other option than to put it at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/veridiandrade

Word order shouldn't matter here. 'je znają' could sound more natural but 'znają je' is equally correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

If the whole sentence was "They know them", then you could answer "Znają je", sure. But you shouldn't put any pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it. So "Znają je", but "Oni je znają".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/veridiandrade

Oh, now I see. So there's a grammar rule my in-laws had forgotten about. Thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClaudiaHie2

But word order 'znają je' is marked wrong...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, as I wrote above. If the sentence was just two words long, then you have no other option to put "je" than at the end: "Znają je".

But the sentence here is longer, so you can easily avoid putting the pronoun at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/caezar10

Polish had words for boy in many different ways, chłopiec chłopcem, chłopaki, etc. Why grab the word "je" for eating to use as "je" for them, or vice versa? Polish is very complex


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

True, we do have many words for a boy: "chłopczyk", "chłopiec", "chłopak", "chłopaczysko", "chłopczysko", "chłopaczyna", "chłopczyna", "chłoptaś", "chłoptyś", "chłopię", "chłopiątko" to name just those with the same stem "chłop".

"Chłopiec" and "chłopcem" are just two different cases of the same noun and "chłopcy" and "chłopaki" are version of the plural.

However, in any language there are words that are spelled the same but have completely different meaning. These are called homographs (Polish: "cis" = C sharp sound and "cis" = yew, pronounced differently; English: "a minute and a minute detail). There are also homonyms that sound the same (Polish: "morze" = sea and "może' = maybe; English: sea and see). Finally, there are words that are both homographs and homonyms (Polish "je" = them and "je = (he) eats; English: to sow and a sow, an animal).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/delanthear

So, Je isn't eating in the context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

That is correct. "je" is the Accusative form of "one" here. And as "them" can be a form of either "oni" or "one", both "ich" and "je" are correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dimitrios2608

That's funny, because I typed 'ich' and it wasn't accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dimitrios2608

Nevermind, I had 'ich' at the end. My mistake


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/akikotsukamoto

why 'them ' must be " je" , I think "ich" is also OK


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, both should work, we don't know 'their' gender.

Czy ci mężczyźni [je/ich] znają? - those are the starred answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margotgm

why isn't it correct if the 'je'(them) is at the end of this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Inessa-Duo

"Czy ci mężczyźni znają je" - incorrect? Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I don't know what this sentence has with it that more people suggest such a word order than in any other sentence I noticed, but no, I don't believe that this is a word order we'd like to teach. If you have another place to put a pronoun like "je", it should be put there and not at the end of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maksym7683

Zarówno "ich" jak i "je" powinno być akceptowane. Kontekstu nie znamy. Proszę o poprawienie.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Akceptujemy obie wersje.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom291731

"je znają" and "znają je" is the same!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

We still wanna teach that pronouns shouldn't end up at the end of the sentence.

Recently I asked my team to rethink it in this particular sentence and everyone who answered was against accepting "znają je" here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nwostak

Couldn't "te" be used instead of ci?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"te" is the 'not masculine-personal form'. So it would work for women. Or dogs. Or boxes. But not for men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peter138415

How come (Je) , can be used to refer to (them) & eats (on Je) He eats


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marta865433

Them can be also 'ich'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yup. Either "je" or "ich", depending on 'their' gender.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Helena842949

I used ich instead of je. Why was this unacceptable? The gender of them was unspecified.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's also a starred answer, it should have worked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olha_Osia

them - ich / je - her


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Unfortunately that's incorrect.

  • Them: ich (masculine personal) / je (nonvirile)
  • Her: ją (accusative) / jej (genitive)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olha_Osia

Czy ci mężczyźni znają je?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I've already responded to this exact question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterJ422616

i was marked wrong because i had the "je" at the end of the sentence. Why does the verb have to be at the end. This is NOT Latin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Polish avoids putting pronouns at the end of the sentence, if only there's another place. "je" at the end here sounds quite clumsy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/andrzejzalewski

What is wrong with "czy ci mężczyźni znają ich"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

This question has been asked and answered many times in this SD (sentence discussion).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/999Road

But doesnt "je" mean "eating" also? for example "ten mezczyzna je obiad" ... is the "je" here means different cause of the noun that comes after? znaja means "them" , thats why we determine je as a "know"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Norman_Rockwell

I love saying 'czy ci mężczyźni'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I thought about "Czy tata czyta cytaty Tacyta?" = "Does dad read Tacitus' quotes?" ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jadzia969508

Why "Czy ci mężczyźni znają je" is the wrong answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kristine466318

To jest poprawna odpowiedź, ale jest lepiej jak zaimek nie stoi na końcu zdania.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Piotr32629

In this sentence we may speak about men and/or women with at least one man ("them"). So it should be OK with "ich".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

This question has been asked and answered many times in this SD (sentence discussion).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MFON128801

why does the system not recognise wiedza (they know)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DorotaJarosz

"Wiedzieć" and "znać" are not interchangeable.

"Wiedzieć coś" means to have the knowledge of something, but one cannot "wiedzieć kogoś". This verb does not accept human objects.

On the other hand, "znać" means "to be acquainted or familiar with" and you can be acquainted with both humans ("znać kogoś) and to be familiar with things or ideas ("znać coś").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/caezar10

And, why is this incorrect. Czy tych mężczyżni je znają?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"tych" doesn't suit "mężczyźni" grammatically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olha_Osia

Czy ci mężczyźni ich znają?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kovi311902

Why is czy ci mężczyźni znają je wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I've already answered that question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YuriNate

Wait.. isn't "je" also the verb to eat? Like "On je" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kristine466318

Yes, it is. Ja jem, ty jesz, on/ona je, my jemy, wy jecie, oni/one jedzą, and the infinitive is jeść. There is no connection, just a coincidence.

Learn Polish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.