"Do these men know them?"

Translation:Czy ci mężczyźni je znają?

December 23, 2015

This discussion is locked.


When do you use "je" and when do you use "ich" for them?


Je - group of women, ich - group of men or women with at least one man. ;)


Thanks, does it say women anywhere in the clue, that could tell us to use je instead of ich?


No. You have to choose yourself whether you will decide that 'they' are only women or there is at least one man among them. Nothing in this sentence suggests any of those answers, they are equally correct.

In real life you'd have context = you'd know whom you're talking about, so then of course you choose the word accordingly.


It still does not accept ich.


"[Czy/] ci [mężczyźni/ludzie] [je/ich] znają?" are accepted.


this is not accepted: Czy ci mężczyźni znają ich


It's not accepted because there's an object pronoun at the end, which should be avoided if possible.


There is no context. Ich should be accepted, no?


Not in the last position.


a co jeżeli jest paru facetów i ani jednej kobiety co to za tłumaczenie i czemu nie zaliczyło ich skoro też jest poprawnie


Most likely the pronoun "ich" was at the end of the sentence, which should be avoided, if only possible. The sentence is accepted with "… ich znają."


"ich" może być również na końcu, bez żadnego problemu.


To jest kurs podstawowy, w którym nie akceptujemy rzadkich konstrukcji składniowych, ponieważ nie brzmią one zbyt naturalnie.

Porównałem częstotliwość wystąpień zaimka 'ich' na końcu podobnych zdań składających się z pięciu słów z częstotliwością wystąpień tego zaimku przed czasownikiem. Sam możesz wprowadzić kod w wyszukiwarkę korpusu i się przekonać:

[orth="[.?!]"] [pos!=interp] [pos=noun] [pos!=interp & orth!="nie|i"] ich [pos="fin|praet"] [pos=aglt]? [orth="[.?!]"]

49 przykładów.

[orth="[.?!]"] [pos!=interp] [pos=noun] [pos!=interp & orth!="nie|i"] [pos="fin|praet"] [pos=aglt]? ich [orth="[.?!]"]

4 przykłady.



For "these" men.


Oh I see now, thanks


Would the order of je and znają mąkę a difference? So is ... Znają je correct (would be more natural to a native English speaker) thanks


It's acceptable, but not recommended. It gives a strange emphasis on the pronoun. Not that natural.


As I don't know whether a man is in 'them' or not, why isn't 'ich' accepted but only 'je'?


Both are accepted.


it isn't accepting both


It is. Perhaps you're one of those people that answer "czy ci mężczyźni znają [ich/je]"... this isn't really a good word order, you shouldn't put a pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it. And you can here.


"you shouldn't put a pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it" - Can you give the source of this rule? I think this sentence "Ci mężczyźni znają ich" is consistent with the rules of the Polish language


It's not wrong, it just gives an emphasis that rarely makes sense. The stress in the Polish sentence goes at the end, most important informatation goes at the end. So "Ci mężczyźni znają ich" is like "These men know THEM". Sure, you can say that, especially in rapid speech that wasn't carefully thought through, but we try to teach people to avoid doing it.


When can't you avoid it?


In a short sentence, like "Oddaj je!" = "Give them back!" or "Oddaj mi je!" = "Give them back to me!"


ci mężczyźni znają je - should be accepted


We generally don't accept sentences where pronouns are at the end, unless there is no other option.


You can be right, this is colloquial speech


Word order shouldn't matter here. 'je znają' could sound more natural but 'znają je' is equally correct.


If the whole sentence was "They know them", then you could answer "Znają je", sure. But you shouldn't put any pronoun at the end of the sentence if only you can avoid it. So "Znają je", but "Oni je znają".


Oh, now I see. So there's a grammar rule my in-laws had forgotten about. Thank you!


But word order 'znają je' is marked wrong...


Well, as I wrote above. If the sentence was just two words long, then you have no other option to put "je" than at the end: "Znają je".

But the sentence here is longer, so you can easily avoid putting the pronoun at the end.


I am now on level 4 and it is still not sticking. Too many pronouns to learn in one go, in too many structures. It is no good saying one should not put a pronoun at the end, and then use them that: 'mamy ją'. When is the cut off between the two? Perhaps do the range of pronouns first, then a later section for the earlier position, or something like that.


With "mamy ją" there is no other option than to put it at the end.


So, Je isn't eating in the context?


That is correct. "je" is the Accusative form of "one" here. And as "them" can be a form of either "oni" or "one", both "ich" and "je" are correct.


That's funny, because I typed 'ich' and it wasn't accepted


Nevermind, I had 'ich' at the end. My mistake


Polish had words for boy in many different ways, chłopiec chłopcem, chłopaki, etc. Why grab the word "je" for eating to use as "je" for them, or vice versa? Polish is very complex


True, we do have many words for a boy: "chłopczyk", "chłopiec", "chłopak", "chłopaczysko", "chłopczysko", "chłopaczyna", "chłopczyna", "chłoptaś", "chłoptyś", "chłopię", "chłopiątko" to name just those with the same stem "chłop".

"Chłopiec" and "chłopcem" are just two different cases of the same noun and "chłopcy" and "chłopaki" are version of the plural.

However, in any language there are words that are spelled the same but have completely different meaning. These are called homographs (Polish: "cis" = C sharp sound and "cis" = yew, pronounced differently; English: "a minute and a minute detail). There are also homonyms that sound the same (Polish: "morze" = sea and "może' = maybe; English: sea and see). Finally, there are words that are both homographs and homonyms (Polish "je" = them and "je = (he) eats; English: to sow and a sow, an animal).


Czy ci mężczyźni znają je?


I've already responded to this exact question.


But doesnt "je" mean "eating" also? for example "ten mezczyzna je obiad" ... is the "je" here means different cause of the noun that comes after? znaja means "them" , thats why we determine je as a "know"?


"je" does indeed also mean "(he/she/it) [eats/is eating]", but I think it's better not to give it too much thought. Sometimes two completely unrelated words just look the same.

"znają" means "(they) know", it doesn't mean "them".

Now, as you aleady know, there are two words for "they" in Polish: "oni" (PT: "eles") and "one" (PT: "elas").

As the verb "znać" (PT: "conhecer") takes the Accusative case, the Accusative form of "oni" is "ich", and for "one" it's "je".

So "Czy ci mężczyźni [ich/je] znają?" are equally correct here, because we have no context here which could tell us whether "them" is "Mark and Steve" or "Joanna and Kate".


AHHH! Clarified like water now!! Thanks so much , you are a true helper ! i had deleted the comment cause i saw your comment here after i read it all about two words can be written the same but with completely distinct meanings ,thats why i deleted it


BTW, in Polish, we say "Jasne jak słońce", where "jasne" may mean both "clear" and "bright", as in "enlightened" In English. This expression is an intended pun.


I love saying 'czy ci mężczyźni'


I thought about "Czy tata czyta cytaty Tacyta?" = "Does dad read Tacitus' quotes?" ;)


Why "Czy ci mężczyźni znają je" is the wrong answer?


To jest poprawna odpowiedź, ale jest lepiej jak zaimek nie stoi na końcu zdania.


"Ci mężczyźni znają je?" didn't work

"Czy ci mężczyźni znają je?" didn't work

"Ci mężczyźni znają ich?" didn't work

"Czy ci mężczyźni znają ich?" didn't work

But then "Ci mężczyźni ich znają?" did.

Someone explain to me how Polish pronouns works. I am having a stroke trying to understand them.


There is a rule discussed in this tread already, (https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/12488345?comment_id=34620650) saying that we don't put pronouns at the end if it can be avoided. So, your first four answers are disqualified this way. Now, the last one, even though the word "czy" is omitted, can work with the right intonation, it's a little odd but acceptable. Don't loose your head over it, it's not worth it.


Bzdury wypisujecie


Słucham? Kto i gdzie? Na tym forum piszemy po angielsku.

Excuse me? Who and what? We use English in this forum.


Couldn't "te" be used instead of ci?


"te" is the 'not masculine-personal form'. So it would work for women. Or dogs. Or boxes. But not for men.


why 'them ' must be " je" , I think "ich" is also OK


Yes, both should work, we don't know 'their' gender.

Czy ci mężczyźni [je/ich] znają? - those are the starred answers.


why does the system not recognise wiedza (they know)


"Wiedzieć" and "znać" are not interchangeable.

"Wiedzieć coś" means to have the knowledge of something, but one cannot "wiedzieć kogoś". This verb does not accept human objects.

On the other hand, "znać" means "to be acquainted or familiar with" and you can be acquainted with both humans ("znać kogoś) and to be familiar with things or ideas ("znać coś").


why isn't it correct if the 'je'(them) is at the end of this sentence?


How come (Je) , can be used to refer to (them) & eats (on Je) He eats


In any language you will find words that are identical although they're not even remotely related, that's just one of the examples from Polish.


ah okkk thanks!! i was wondering why "je" here had a different meaning


And, why is this incorrect. Czy tych mężczyżni je znają?


"tych" doesn't suit "mężczyźni" grammatically.


"tych" is the Genitive or Accusative case, but "mężczyźni" is the Nominative case that must be preceded by a demonstrative pronoun in the Nominative case as well because it is the subject of the sentence: "ci mężczyźni"

The demonstrative pronoun "tych" would have to be followed by "mężczyzn".


Them can be also 'ich'


Yup. Either "je" or "ich", depending on 'their' gender.


I used ich instead of je. Why was this unacceptable? The gender of them was unspecified.


It's also a starred answer, it should have worked.


Great answers for this it made it easier to understand


Why is czy ci mężczyźni znają je wrong?


i was marked wrong because i had the "je" at the end of the sentence. Why does the verb have to be at the end. This is NOT Latin.


Polish avoids putting pronouns at the end of the sentence, if only there's another place. "je" at the end here sounds quite clumsy.


"Czy ci mężczyźni znają je" - incorrect? Why?


I don't know what this sentence has with it that more people suggest such a word order than in any other sentence I noticed, but no, I don't believe that this is a word order we'd like to teach. If you have another place to put a pronoun like "je", it should be put there and not at the end of the sentence.


Zarówno "ich" jak i "je" powinno być akceptowane. Kontekstu nie znamy. Proszę o poprawienie.


Akceptujemy obie wersje.


"je znają" and "znają je" is the same!


We still wanna teach that pronouns shouldn't end up at the end of the sentence.

Recently I asked my team to rethink it in this particular sentence and everyone who answered was against accepting "znają je" here.


Wait.. isn't "je" also the verb to eat? Like "On je" ?


Yes, it is. Ja jem, ty jesz, on/ona je, my jemy, wy jecie, oni/one jedzą, and the infinitive is jeść. There is no connection, just a coincidence.


My answer "Czy ci mężczyźni znają je?" (incorrect). Why I cannot use this order?


Because you should avoid putting a pronoun at the end if possible. Here there is no problem having it before the verb: "je znają" rather than "znają je". You can say that, it is grammatically correct, but puts special emphasis on JE.


Czy Ci mężczyźni znają je - kolejny niezrozumiały problem.


Dlaczego trzy razy piszesz to samo? Czytaj poprzednie komentarze, jest już kilka razy wyjaśnione, że w kursie polskiego zaimki na końcu zdania nie są tolerowane, jeśli można je wstawić gdzie indziej.


Czy ci mężczyźni znają je - proszę wskazać błąd.


Nie spamuj. Jeśli nie potrafisz czytać, ani pisać wyjaśnień po angielsku, to ukończ najpierw kurs angielskiego.

W tym kursie dbamy również o styl języka polskiego, nie tylko o zrozumienie. Pora podszlifować też język polski.


Czy ci mezczyzni znaja ja should be correct


It is not correct because is singular and them is plural. It has to be either ich (masc.) or je (fem.)


Sometimes it wants me to put the pronoun first, and sometimes it wants it later. How do I know what cases to put it first and what cases to put it second?


You mean "je"/"ich"? We want you to avoid putting a pronoun at the end of the sentence if it's possible to avoid it. So "[Czy/] ci mężczyźni [je/ich] znają?" can easily avoid it. "Oni [je/ich] znają" also can avoid it. But you can also omit the subject pronoun and just say "Znają [je/ich]", which is perfectly correct and natural, but there just isn't any other place for the pronoun to go, so it ends up at the end.

Putting a pronoun (other than the subject pronoun) at the beginning of the sentence is very rarely correct, so that's why it couldn't be "[Je/Ich] znają".


Czy ci mężczyźni znają je?

This is not accepted, I think it should be added. Or explain to me why not :)


The answer to this question is already here.


A dlaczego nie akceptuje "czy ci mężczyźni znają je"? Bo nie rozumiem...


Już kilkakrotnie zostało to wyjaśnione, dlaczego nie przyjmujemy zaimków na końcu zdania. Np. tu


I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Why isn't it: Czy ci mezczyzni znaia je? Why is them BEFORE know?


If you search this page for "znają je" you will see that this question has been answered, like, ten times already.


You don't have to be SO rude about it! Maybe this language comes easy to you, but NOT to me. And by the way, I only see ONE answer that pertains to my question, so thanks for nothing!!


Maybe this language comes easy to you, but NOT to me.

I should have realised earlier that the complexity of a language impedes the ability to search a page for keywords. My apologies.


Please, take no offence. I do not wish to offend. However, a bit of advice from an educator concerning your answer. Possibly, a better way to have written it would be: "Please see above for answer from Godzilla 1111." Please, it is only a suggestion on subject. Have a good day.


Could "nich" be used here (Czy ci mężczyźni nich znają)?


'Nich' can only appear after prepositions.


Żadnego je,lecz ich.


Jeśli tłumaczysz z angielskigo może być albo je albo ich, bo oba znaczą them.


Okay, so the word order has been discussed here > je znają, not znają je. But right before, I wrote 'Nie go znają' and it was marked as incorrect, the correct version being 'Nie znają go'. Why is it different in both examples?


In the second example, there actually isn't another option than to put "go" at the end, there's no other place. It surely can't be at the beginning of the sentence, and it also can't be right after "nie", because you want to negate "knowing him", not just "him".

"Nie go znają" should be treated as an attempt to say "It is not him whom they know (they know someone else, not him"). Firstly, that's already a bit odd, and secondly, there's a separate, emphasized form that would be needed here: "jego". "Nie jego znają".

If we added the subject pronoun (oni/one) to that sentence, that creates room for "go" to not go at the end of the sentence. We'd end up with "Oni go nie znają".


Thank you for this detailed answer. I won't pretend to understand it fully quite yet but the fog is definitely lifting :)


This answer should be fix


There is nothing to fix here. Both versions are correct and correspond to each other. What is your question?


can you use 'tych' as an alternative to 'ci '


No, ci is the only virile nominative form.
Tych is accusative/genitive/locative.


What is the difference between "czy ci mężczyźni je znają" and "czy ci mężczyźni znają je"? I flip-flopped the last words and got it wrong. I don't understand my mistake.


The pronoun should not be at the end of the sentence unless it's the only option. So, "czy ci mężczyźni znają je?" is wrong, je should not be at the end. Sometimes you can flip-flop a lot sometimes you can't.

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