39 Comments
In that situation ("this or this") you should use "lub" in sentences, "czy" in questions.
1486
Perhaps I need to ask what other situation there is. Are you saying that in any case where "or" indicates an alternative between two nouns, it is "lub"? In that case, is czy only used when it is a choice of verbs?
- 1486
Ah, clearly I did not understand 4d1n's answer. Thank you for clarifying it.
But "lub" could also be used in questions.
"Zjesz kanapki lub jajka?" (Will you eat sandwiches or eggs?) - you can choose sandwiches, eggs, both or none.
"Zjesz kanapki, czy jajka?" (Will you eat sandwiches, or eggs?) - you can choose sandwiches, or eggs.
@israellai: In questions yes, but more like "I have only this and this, do you want some?". In sentences it has the same meaning, as "czy" in questions: you can choose only one option.
@ann666: "Czy zjesz kanapki lub jajka?" - in my opinion 100% correct. "Czy zjesz kanapki, czy jajka?" is incorrect.
@JamesT.Wilson: In questions. "Czy" is like in Matrix: "take red pill, or blue pill" (only one). "Lub" gives you open choice "feel free and do whatever you want".
4d1n: so the lub case is rather like "do you wanna eat something, like this or this?"
- 1486
So, then, 4d1n, is czy used for closed lists and lub used for open lists? ann666, we have been using czy at the beginning of yes/no questions throughout this program. Are you saying that is invalid? Is it some sort of regional variant?
"Czy" is used not only in questions. "Tak czy owak, (...)", "tak czy siak", "tak czy inaczej" are common expressions and mean "either way, (...)". "The particle "czy" between two nouns or longer statements should be translated not as "or", but as "or rather", which is a mutually exclusive alternative. This alternative can also have more parts, so in closed lists, too.
yes all nouns that are "not masculine personal" have plural accusative=plural nominative. Only men have plural accusative=plural genitive
Yes. In my opinion, at least in speech jajka is a lot more common, and jaja is usually used for some surprisingly big eggs, like ostrich's ones. But that's no rule and there's no reason that hen's eggs found in a shop couldn't be described as 'jaja kurze'.
- 890
I've been seeing a lot of people write "jaja" on the Polish forums, then I looked at wiktionary and it says it also means fun, amusement (or balls, testicles)?
Yes. When playing football, one should be careful not to get hit 'right in the balls' with the ball - 'prosto w jaja'. 'klejnoty' = jewels may be another euphemism.
"Ale jaja!" may be written when you see something hilarious. ('ale' is not 'but' here but a particle used for emphasis)
"robić sobie z kogoś jaja" could be translated to making fun of someone, or 'pulling one's leg'. "Jaja sobie ze mnie robisz?!" works nicely (and without swearing!) for "Are you f*g kidding me?!"
"Fun, amusement" is kind of a weird translation because it's not like you would use 'jaja' to your grandparents to show how fun the trip to the museum was, not only because it's not suitable but also doesn't really make sense unless someone tripped on the floor and made you laugh uncontrollably.
"But" can be used in English for emphasis too! "Are you going to the party? But of course!".
@JamesT.Wilson. You make an interesting point. It is used in Brit. Eng. with no sense of it being a humorous translation, but I can't immediately think of other uses of "But" :-)
- 1486
Can you think of a context in which it is used for emphasis without "of course"? I think "but of course" is simply a translation of the French "mais bien sur," and I am not sure I have ever heard it without a humorous French accent.
Word "jaja" is also used for saying, that something is very funny ("Widziałeś ten występ? Niezłe jaja zrobili" - "Have you seen that performance? They were very amusing.")
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or that someone is fooling ("On sobie robi z ciebie jaja." - "He is fooling you")
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or for something is very strange/surprising ("Wielka bryła lodu na ulicy w środku lata, niezłe jaja." - "Big ice cube on the street in the middle of the summer, that's very strange",
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or as a common word for testicles.
It matters a lot, actually - because it emphasizes different things. Sometimes differently emphasized sentences in Polish only have one correct translation into English, but sometimes it's easy to show it in English as well.
"Jem kanapki rano" answers "When do I eat sandwiches".
"Rano jem kanapki" answers "What do I eat in the morning" or "What do I do in the morning".
Confused. There is nothing in this sentence which leads me to believe that this is a "eat whatever you want" construct as opposed to an "either A or B" construct. So how can one tell the difference? Also, when does one use albo, as opposed to czy or lub?
This sentence, to me, says that I either eat sandwiches or eggs for breakfast. Simple as that. I'm confused about that 'eat whatever you want' thing you mentioned, I don't know what you meant.
"czy" is almost only used in questions (gives a choice between A or B)
As for "lub" vs "albo". In theory, "lub" = "OR" (so it allows for the choice of both variants, therefore I can have both eggs and a sandwich on breakfast tomorrow), while "albo" = "XOR" (exclusive or - either eggs, or sandwiches, but not both). But in fact, most Polish people either don't know that or don't care. So you can treat them as perfectly synonymous.
Are you offering that as an alternative translation of "sandwiches or eggs"? I don't think it's quite right.
I don't think so, eggs also have to be in plural. I asked several natives.
