"Próbujesz pomagać pracownikom."

Translation:You are trying to help the employees.

December 27, 2015

16 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gizzard123

One has to be careful because the woman's voice sounds as if she's asking a question. Instead she's making a statement. If you write the sentence in a question form (are you trying to help the workers?), you'll get it wrong. I keep falling for this all the time. Arghhhhhh! Is it just me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mark.boats

Not just you, there's a very clear rising inflection at the end of the audio that got me too :-D

I guess the lack of a question mark in the text should make it clear the sentance is a statement and not a question...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/matt.elsewhere

Is it also possible to say "Próbujesz pomóc pracownikom"? What is the different in meaning?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

pomóc - to help once
pomagać - to help on multiple occasions


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Walkinthedog

I tried assist and it didn't work, I feel it should, as both mean the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janezg

what about "Do you try to help the employees"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WrzodX

If there was a question mark "Próbujesz pomagać pracownikom?", it would've been correct to write "Do you try to help the employees?".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vst321

Why does 'pracownicy' become dative here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

They are the indirect object of the verb "pomagać", and indirect objects take Dative in Polish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvesAB

So the rules for case declension apply even when the verb is in the infinitive with a "helper" verb before it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes. For example you'd also have "próbujesz pić wodę" (Accusative) or "musisz szukać kota" (Genitive).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvesAB

Got it. Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark670475

I don't understand why the 'pracownikom' are the indirect object rather than the direct object of the verb 'pomagać' in this sentence. Who or what is the direct object? Or does 'pomagać' always take dative?

Can someone probuje pomóc me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

In "Can someone try help me", I think both 'try' and 'help are infinitives, so "Can someone spróbować pomóc me?" ;)

At one point, someone pointed out to me that we might be overusing the term "indirect object" a bit. I am still not 100% clear about it, but it seems that there may be no indirect object if there isn't also a direct object.

So while usually Dative is used for an indirect object (the receiver of the action) and there's also some direct object, here we should just say that 'the employees' are the receiver of the action of helping.

Or, you know... Polish people just know that "pomagać" takes Dative, or maybe rather we 'feel' it rather than 'know' it. So every explanation here is just trying to explain to the users 'why' although we have to try to figure out 'why' ourselves.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark670475

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I'm now wondering if it's dative because, when you help someone, you give help 'to' them.

In any case, I will try (spróbować?) not to worry about 'why' at this stage and just accept that it is a rule that pomagać and pomóc take dative / celownik.

Thanks again.

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