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- "Non è né tè né caffè nero."
114 Comments
Why is "Non" included? "E ne te ne caffe nero" translates to English the same, doesn't it? Is this just Italian sentance structure?
I second this question - I can only note that what looks like a double negative in English is common in other languages (including Italian's ancestor, Latin) for emphasising negativity
Otherwise it would be a double negative, in which case "I don't drink neither tea nor coffee" has the same meaning as "I drink tea or coffee"
"Non bevo né tè né caffè" and "Bevo tè o caffè" have completely different meanings. At the first sentence, the person doesn't drink either one, and at the second, the person drinks both.
The thing is, in romantic languages (and I don't say this as an Italian but as a Portuguese speaker xD) there's no such thing as "double negatives" for all I can remember. If one uses the word non together with some negative conjuction or such the negative is only emphasised, as Procrastinans said. Thus, it's totally optional when you're gonna do a "double negative" or not. The meaning is not gonna realy change
Thanks, Really interesting to know these nuances of language, we certainly have them in English.
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So, in Italian it's correct to also say, "Bevo né tè né caffè," and it will mean the same as the sentence with non at the beginning (only not as strong)? I didn't realise the "non" was optional.
It may have to do with "né" meaning both "neither" and "either"(according to the mouse-over definition that Duolingo provides), which would change the meaning entirely. But I'm not sure. I find it rather confusing, myself. Perhaps the "non" makes the difference between saying "I drink either tea or black coffee" and "I drink neither tea nor black coffee." I think that without the 'non', you're open to drinking either one. Anyone with more expertise care to illuminate this point? When does "né" mean 'neither', and when does it mean 'either'?
No, in English a double negative will each negate the other and become positive, but in Italian extra negatives only reinforce the negative.
Sorry, but the idea of a double negative turning into a positive isn't correct. A double negative is simply wrong with no meaning.
That depends; "not impossible" means almost the same as "possible" (although not quite as it's an understatement), while "not neither" is bad grammar.
If it is wrong, that misconception has been around a long time in English. With teachers even giving examples of this, perhaps to reinforce the correct way to say it. I agree that the correct way to state the positive is not by use of double negatives. http://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/double_negative.htm http://leo.stcloudstate.edu/grammar/doubneg.html http://www.englishleap.com/common-mistakes/double-negatives
"In Shakespeare's days, double negatives were considered emphatic, but today, they are considered grammar mistakes." So, about double negatives, Italian today is like English was in Shakespeare time.
I believe this depends upon the language. Clearly, Italian and English take different paths here.
I can't get no satisfaction = two doubles = positive = I get satisfaction. Except, is that really what Mick meant? He was thinking more like Shakespeare? Interesting!
You might be right in Boolean logic, but language is not so logical!
I have mistakes on a regular basis that I think are fairly attributed to the quality (or rather the lack thereof) of the artificial voice. It clips some of the shorter words so much they go by without being heard at the regular speed, and barely can tell at the slower.
Nota bene: not complaining too much for what is a spectacular FREE product that is doing an amazing job of teaching me italian.
I think that this is actually a feature of real speech (rather than the super-clear speech that language users are usually granted) not a bug of the programme: Words merge together in speech and little connecting words, which are unstressed and clear from context (to a native speaker) become almost inaudible (in fact).
Which is, perhaps, why it's good to learn the phrase "Could you repeat that more slowly, please?" ;-)
I completely agree with you on your nota bene. As people say: If it is free, give me three.
I love this comment! I, too, have to freqently use the slowed-up "dissected" soundtrack if I want to catch all the articles and prepositions that
are there for the "type what you hear" exercises...but I am having fun keeping the little green owl "happy" !!!
I've been Duolingoing (huh? ; )) for over a year and now find the voice really intelligible. So be patient it'll come in time. I seldom even need to usethe slow speech.
New voice kicked in about a week ago. It's outstanding...much, much better than the old one. There's at least one thread filled with people rejoicing.
Why is "Non" included? "E ne te ne caffe nero" translates to English the same, doesn't it? Is this just Italian sentance structure?
'Non' relates to the verb - 'non è' = 'it is not'. The 'nè' means 'neither' or 'some'. So the sentence literally means 'it is not neither tea neither coffee'. A literal translation sounds odd. But in Italian you use a double negative - unlike English.
It is = È
It is not = Non è
<sub>~</sub><sub>~</sub>~~
There = Ci
There is = C'è
There is not = Non c'è
Is né pronounced net? Even the second one (which is followed by caffè) sounds like net when duo says it.
I'm guessing that would be "Né tè né caffè sono nero" -- can someone correct or verify this?
I wrote "It is neither black coffee nor black tea" and it was wrong. It shouldn't be.
In tartaruga mode i heard 'net' when the voice said "né" but got away with duolingo saying that i should get the accent right. But i know that it simply cannot nag about two things at the same time.
"it isn't either tea nor black coffee" should also be accepted because the negative is already included with the "is."
This sentence seems to imply that tea isn't served black, but it can be just like coffee.
When I hover over né it says it can also mean 'either ... or'. How can we distinguish which this sentence means ... 'It is not either tea or coffee" or "It is neither tea nor coffee." Or are both correct?
I don't think that there is a difference of meaning between 'It is not either tea or coffee" and "It is neither tea nor coffee." (Except that, strictly speaking, the first one might not be grammatically correct)
Is there a significance to left-facing (è) versus right-facing (é) accent marks in Italian? Is there a difference between the two, or do they both mean "stress the word on this vowel"?
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The accents mean stress that vowel, but honestly, although Duo keeps telling me I am not paying attention when I ignore the left-facing accents, the truth is that I have never seen OR used the left facing accent in Italian, only the right facing one. So I asked mio sposo who IS Italian, and also took proper Italian in University for 3 years, whether or not I should be worrying about that left facing accent. His verdict? No. It may have been used donkey's years ago, in very formal Italian, but it has fallen out of usage.
I had been wondering about the different accents - in the Italian class I go to my teacher (who is Italian) has never made any distinction between right and left facing accents. I also haven't yet spotted this in reading the printed word.
No, I could not understand it but gladly lost a heart to the humor. Yesterday, I noticed on Troubleshooting another comment about the "problem" option. Try reporting it on "Support". The problem with the "problem" I mean. Sorry, just couldn't resist the double problem.
What was the problem that you wanted to report? Sometimes they get too much feedback on something that is correct and they stop taking reports for a while. Did you read all the comments in this discussion section?
- 177
I could not make any sense as to what she was saying, even when speaking slowly. The only words i got were "ne caffe"
- 176
It did not count as correct "There is neither tea nor black coffee." Can someone explain why this is incorrect to me?
- 1119
I think that would be, "Non c'e ne te ne caffe nero." (Excuse lack of accents!) See sammydoodle comment further up.
Could nero also apply to tea here? As in, "do you always take sugar? -Yes, I like neither my tea nor my coffee black"?
I was thinking the same thing, can "nero" apply to both the tea and the coffee in this sentence? Or would it have to be "té nero" AND "caffé nero?"
"Neither tea OR coffee" is as acceptable English I think as "neither tea nor coffee".
Must this conjunction né always appear two times in a sentence? Or would the sentence "non è tè né caffè" also be grammatically correct?
This one is ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ stupid i pronounced it right all three muthafuckin times
I found the voice really difficult to understand. short words seem much harder to hear on DL
I put "No it is neither tea nor black coffee"... -_- but then why does it start with non?.. Do not understand because there is 3 no's essentially: 1. non 2. né 3. né .. Wouldn't this version be correct as well?
The pronunciation (even the slower version) sounds like it has a "t" on the end of each "ne"
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My answer was "it is neither tea or black coffee. I'm English and have been for the last 40 odd years and my answer is how its said......
In standard Italian, they have different pronunciations, e.g. pèsca (/ˈpɛska/) means 'peach' and pésca (/ˈpeska/) means fishing, and tè means 'tea' while te (pronounced like té) means 'you'. In most dialects, however, there is barely any distinction and it's just spelling.
Duolingo make up your mind! Why is: It is neither tea nor black coffee". CORRECT? AND: SHE EATS NEITHER CHICKEN NOR FISH"= INCORRECT? IN ENGLISH IF I SAY "I eat NEITHER chicken NOR fish" is AS CORRECT as if I say: I don't eat NEITHER chicken NOR fish=DUOLING'S CHOISE, And on the next sentence DUOLINGO "switches ", and changes it's mind! IN BOTH INSTANCES THE SENTENCES ARE CORRECT! AND 'DON'' IS NOT NEEDED!!!! SINCE NEITHER AND NOR ARE very clear
a) Never ever heard an Italian speak as quickly as a New Yorker b) Spoke so fast I could not remember what he said c) Spoke so fast I could not even clearly hear the middle of the sentence d) What happened to La Dolce Vita? I took shorthand so I know how to remember sentences, this is just too darn fast!
For all of you who doesn't like double negative, we have the same in Hungarian and it is negative.
In English you should NEVER use a double negative. It is never correct to say " neither.......nor". The only correct way is " neither........or". Sadly it is a common error.
