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  5. "Czy mówi pani po angielsku?"

"Czy mówi pani po angielsku?"

Translation:Do you speak English?

January 1, 2016

61 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anothernobody

Can the order of "mówi" and "pani" be switched?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4d1n

Yes. That will be still the same question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uq.

so i use 3rd person when addressing "formal you"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kamil175561

It is similar to French and Spanish where you say "does the gentelman" or "does the lady". For example Czy pani ma papierosy? Does the gentelman have cigarettes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Maybe it was just a typo, but 'pan' is a gentleman, 'pani' is a lady.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sebvaillancourt

in Spanish yes but not in French. in French, the "vous" is used as a formal you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

I've encountered "Est-ce que [le monsieur/la madame] a besoin de quelque chose?" in a shop, but maybe that is ridiculously formal these days!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/acfern
  • 1297

It is quite formal, it can however be used for effect, possibly teasingly. Generally, though, without the article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/verticordian

It's incredibly formal these days and it would only ever be used by for instance wait staff or shop assistants in an incredibly posh establishment but I think 'does madam speak English?' would be an acceptable translation. At least that's how I mentally translate the formal second person.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yeah this is the literal translation, but is it really possible in English? "does madam(e) speak" has altogether 12 results in Google...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/siljil2

I would not hear this in my everyday life, but I certainly would hear it on TV--an English speaking butler saying, "Would the lady like tea? Would the gentleman care for some dinner?" Or, as verticordian said, at ridiculously formal establishments. Therefore the phrasing exists all over the English speaking world, just in contrived instances. (But for any English speakers struggling to understand how to use this, think of a butler in an old movie and suddenly pan and pani meaning "you" makes sense)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Okay, adding it does no harm even if it's 'ridiculously formal' (Polish sentence is after all 'totally normally formal'), so it's gonna work now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/siljil2

I wasn't advocating for change. I think y'all got it right! (I seriously love this program). I understand you are looking for normal conversation, not contrived wording. I just wanted to help an English speaker understand the Polish construction of these formal sentences. We have it, we just don't really use it. Keep up the good work!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, if that is technically possible and will make literally three people (the number of reports) in a group of few thousands happy, then I guess why not ;)

Thank you for the kind words!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rslife

It is indeed good English, though it is, as she says, very formal and somewhat dated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chb0lingo

Better translation: Do you speak English, ma'am? We have formal nouns in English just no formal conjugations


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MacDiarmata

Yes, and also "Sir/madam, do you speak English?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

But that's closer to "Proszę pana/pani, czy mówi pan/pani po angielsku".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

I'm curious that the vocative isn't used here. Does "Proszę" take genitive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It does in constructions with Formal You, which I guess you can treat as fixed phrases. It's not "proszę" as in "I am asking for", it's rather like "Excuse me, sir/madame".

By the way, it's a relatively common mistake for Polish people to say "Proszę panią" when they should have used "Proszę pani", and a joking answer can be "Do tańca"? "Proszę panią do tańca" is like "I'd like to ask you for a dance, madame" ;)

As for Vocative, it would work perfectly with people, when actually meaning "please". "Proszę, mamo/tato/Marku/Aniu!" = "Please, mom/dad/Marek/Ania!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CostelloMusic98

So, if I understood well: pan (litt. sir) -> when addressing to a man pani (litt. lady) -> when addressing a woman panowie (litt. gentlemen) -> when addressing to some men panie (litt. ladies) -> when addressing to some women panstwo -> when addressing to a group where there are both men and women


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexPhysique

This was my favorite phrase when I was in Krakow))


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

In Polish, do you do the German thing like when addressing somebody with a doctorate? Such as "Czy mówi pan doktor po angielsku?" (male example in this case).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

only if: a) they are medicine doctor, even if they don't have doctorate
or
b) it's a university based situation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emwue

You can… In fact, for a „Professor zwyczajny”(ie. actual full professor and not 'teaching(or assistant or whatever) professor', it would/could be perceived as impolite or even derogatory not to mention the title. Same goes for Bishops, Cardinals, Prime Ministers(usually Ministers too), Presidents and Rectors.

You can, but it's not obligatory, mention the title for vice-Ministers, Speakers of Parliament(for Speakers of Sejm is mandatory too, I think), Secretaries of State(sekretarz stanu), Ph.D., Ambassadors and priests.

You can and it's overkill, that might(but doesn't have to – all in the context) be perceived as a depreciating jocular manner of speech, mention the titles for MSc(magister), engineers(mgr inż.) and especially for Bachelor's degree/licencjat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

I'd just add that:

1) priests are not "pan ksiądz", but "ksiądz", and bishops and cardinals are "ksiądz biskup", "ksiądz kardynał". And it's obligatory to use "ksiądz", it is seen as really impolite to use "pan",

2) I think in work places like building sites and factories, engineers are called "inżynier" but in places like design office that would be overkill.

The same thing is with "magister", it's used when talking to teachers in universities, but anywhere else it's too much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Emwue

Yeah, you just made me realise I put it somehow confusing – it should also be added that when addressing a priest directly it should be „Ojcze”(at least for „ksiądz proboszcz”), for a bishop it should be „Wasza Ekscelencjo” and for Cardinal, „Wasza Eminencjo”.

For ambassadors of Poland it should be „Panie Ambasadorze”/„Pani Ambasador” and for ambassadors of other countries it should be „Wasza Ekscelencjo”.

Obviously, there are also special forms of address for Kings and Queens, but somehow I doubt that will ever be an issue, so I skipped these. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/canongigue

As a person from a Kingdom, I'd like to know how to address Monarchy, just in case. :)

I have been to Malbork castle and saw an old guestbook mentioning Thai king visiting Malbork in 1945. Didn't make note about how they addressed him in Polish though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

For Monarchy it's easy, it's the exact translation of "Your Highness" = "Wasza Wysokość". Although "wasza" is technically plural 'you', you use it to refer to a single person.

If you talked both to the king and the queen, then I believe it would be "Wasze Wysokości".

And when talking about them but not addressing them, it's His/Her Highness: Jego/Jej Wysokość.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

@Jerry

I think that (apart from very formal situations) it's rather an Austrian than a German thing to call someone "Herr/Frau Doktor" unless he or she is a medical doctor. Some people say that Austrians miss their titles of nobility and so they hang on to those few remaining titles.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JolantaIli1

One can address a woman more formally in English by saying "Madam, do you speak English" and a man by saying "Sir, do you speak English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mim_Fox

Not "Ma'am/madam, do you speak english?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

That, and the corresponding "Sir," for the version using "Pan" are OK-ish. More likely English would be to drop the title altogether, and just say, "Excuse me, do you speak English?". But that would be a different Polish construction too!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mim_Fox

Well yes, we probably wouldn't use the title in most circumstances, but to me that is a different sentence. If I were to be speaking formally to a stranger — like maybe if I were in a fancy hotel or something — I might say "Excuse me, do you speak English, Sir?". And at many schools the students still address the teachers as Miss and Sir. It weirds me out, but they do it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Added such a word order (we mostly expected 'madam' at the end of the sentence).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GerwaLU1

is is correct " Czy pani mówi po angielsku?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Looking at https://context.reverso.net/t%C5%82umaczenie/polski-angielski/czy+pani+m%C3%B3wi it seems to be perfectly correct, but I cannot speak for Duo.... Try it and see!

It's probably a matter of emphasis: "Do you speak English?" (as opposed to somebody else in the room) against "Do you speak English?" (as well as being able to read and write English)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/passionfruit12

I got distracted and took mówi very literally and put "he speaks". yikes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elevy23

Can you leave out pani altogether?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

That would change the meaning of the sentence. You can leave out "normal" pronouns, but if you omit the Formal You form, it's just as if you were asking about some 3rd person that must be known from the context.

So "Czy mówi po angielsku?" would be "Does he/she speak English?".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cszerszen

Why mówi (he/she/It? Why not mówisz Is pani nominative here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

"Pani" is indeed nominative here. It is "mówi" and not "mówisz" because "Pan"/"Pani" behave like a 3rd person singular subject. Think of it as "Does the lady (being addressed) speak English?" or "Does Madam speak English?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nathanjm

Could some shed some light on the 'po angielsku' bit in terms of the case?

I have English (as in in the adjective to speak English) as angielski in the nominative. What case does 'po' make it?

I checked Wiktionary and it came up with angielsku as 'Old Dative'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Well... Wiktionary for "po" (at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/po#Preposition_6 ) states that "po" takes dative with adjectives when used in the sense of a language. It also states that "Dative adjectives that end in -ski for the lemma take the archaic suffix -sku instead of the usual -skiemu when used with this preposition."

Does that help?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nathanjm

Perfect explanation. Dziękuję bardzo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eannaoc

So would i be right to say that when pan (etc.) is used as the pronoun carrying out the action then the verb always goes before pan?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

Both orders are perfectly correct, and a question word "Czy" is optional:

(Czy) Pani/Pan mówi po angielsku? - Ma'am/Sir, do you speak English?
(Czy) Mówi pani/pan po angielsku? - Ma'am/Sir, do you speak English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbymyler

Should’t „Do you, ma’am, speak English?” be accepted? I admit that the wording is a little clunky, but it is grammatically acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

It is indeed clunky but acceptable. The problem is that it does require those commas, and Duo isn't great at checking punctuation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thierry835984

"Does sir speak English?" was not accepted. I've often heard the use of "sir" this way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

Where did you hear that? (Which country? What kind of situations?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thierry835984

In London, in the 1990's. A shopkeeper used it. Seemed bizarre to me at the time, but I liked it and since then I've always translated Pan into Sir like this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

Well, then it was just his personal habit... Not a common thing to say in Britain. But I found some hints saying that it might be used in Africa – maybe it has remained from old colonial times.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanGair

That is a perfectly correct translation. Not used in everyday speech but certainly in very formal situations. ~Would Sir like wine with his meal?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, so far all our teammates are strongly against it... can you provide us with some source proving that this is in use?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eannaoc

Jellei: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/sir Under "examples of sir in a sentence" here. It's technically correct however very rare, I can only imagine it being said by waiters, servants or butlers in very formal, upper class establishments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Well, he could have been being sarcastic, or veeerrrry olde-fashioned, or even, dare I say it, not a native English speaker. I (former-Londoner) would suggest avoiding using this expression.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TAJPRU

Why include the word 'pani' in the sentence. The translation given as the answer can be used without the word ' pani'that sentence. By including it means you have to specify that a lady that can speak English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerryMcCarthy99

Dropping the "pani" completely changes the meaning of the sentence.

This exercise is teaching the use of "pani" as a polite form of "you", addressed to a lady. Without the "pani" there, instead of "you", you are referring to a third party, who is either a "he" or a "she", so the meaning changes from "Do you speak Polish?" to "Does he/she speak Polish"?

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