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"Тому, кто любит кофе, понравится наше кафе."

Translation:The one who likes coffee will like our cafe.

January 5, 2016

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Subalito

Exercises like these are hard because you need to google for declension tables along with doing the exercises. I think it is a duolingo policy, not to flood the exercises "tips and hints" section with too much information, which is very comprehensible and makes total sense.

But one has to know the nominative form in order to find the table easily, because then you can always use the same dictionary, like ru.wiktionary.org , and just keep it always open in another tab or a bookmark.

But when you have to loose-google like "Тому delcension table" you usually: 1) find lots of irrelevant results 2) among the results you find like false positive results like this image file http://www.fluentin3months.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/russian.png which as such, doesn't allow CTRL+F, so you have to examine the whole table after "Тому", just to find it isn't even there, so you are looking at the wrong table, an have to research further. Or maybe the result is there but you simply can't see it because you already have a full-time-job in front of the computer and by the end of the day your brains and eyes are barely good enough for duolingo, and definitely just not good enough for these type of researching at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

I wish DL would put the declension/conjugation together with the definition that you get when you hover on a word in a sentence.

I use Wiktionary.org routinely for this purpose, but it would be MUCH faster and more efficient/effective if it were built-in to DL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gosutag

Like the list of possible declension per word yeah or at least the endings that indicate the declension


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bleepandbloop

this website lets you find a word if you know any form of it. It's in russian but the charts are in the standard order or you could just use google translate to find the cases in russian http://www.morfologija.ru/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveBKK

bleepandbloop - I think someone suggested morfologiya before. And someone else mentioned WIKTIONARY https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D1%8C In my Chrome browser, I can enter a Russian word and Google finds something. Try this: put the word путь in your browser search. See if it brings up Wiktionary. Wiktionary gives the full declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

Definitely my choice. I've been using it for a while.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jlinsitges

Standard order? Depends where. In France the order of declensions is N, A. G. D. I. P. So it depends on which country you come from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bleepandbloop

Per language, of course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Here are links to declension tables for a variety of Russian words. I keep them bookmarked in my browser and in a spreadsheet on my computer under separate tabs, so that I can easily navigate to what I need to look up.

Nouns & Russian Spelling Rules: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29038061

Personal Pronouns: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29119997

Non-Reflexive Possessive Pronouns https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/30122740

Reflexive Personal Pronouns Свой, Себя & Сам: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29965925

Prepositions, Case of Objects, and Meaning: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28544274

Determiners, Indefinite Pronouns & Interrogatives (Этот, тот, кто, что, etc., with a few adjectives, like всё): https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/30373766


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/panchoahead

I'm just marking this thread from my android to re-access it from Pc


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Molina.David

Maybe just remembering the correct answer, after making a bad guess, is OK too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmccartin

This was a bit out of the blue, and wasn't sure what to put for 'Тому'. Are there any notes to be found on this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/freaky_zoid

тому is because of понравится -- it requires dative case: наше кафе понравится тому, кто любит кофе. They swapped the word order, that's why it's so confusing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Тому means "to whom" the coffee нравится. Тому человеку. To that person the coffee is good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimLabbe

So "человеку" is essentially implied here? I think it is confusing because I would expect "кому" to mean "to whom" and "тому" mean "to that" and thus it is someone not something that will like.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

You're right. It can be confusing. Тому refers to "то" meaning "that [neuter]," so тому means "to that." In this exercise, however, тому refers to "тот" meaning "that [masculine]," and the word человек is a masculine noun. So it's essentially "to that person, (or "to one...) who loves coffee...." What other masculine "that" could it be, contextually, other than "that person"? When it's an ambiguous "тому," it means "тому человеку." A parallel could be made in English to the word "one." "To one who loves coffee...." To an English learner, one what? In that case also, "person" is implied.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/treilly

I put "Those that like"..was marked wrong, but it makes sense more in English to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

In a restrictive relative clause it's better style to use "who" for people and "that" for non-people. However, it is so common that it should be accepted - this is not an English course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SpokeMnemosyne

I'm just going to point out that the definitive "The" that starts the sentence makes for an awkward translation in English. Simply "One who likes our..." sounds a lot more natural, and less oddly specific than singling out THE one who likes it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edcitoo

Yes, a cafe business based on "The one" person who likes your product will pretty quickly go bankrupt (unless that person drinks a hell of a lot of expensive coffee all day long!?).

Although not a literal translation - Anyone who likes coffee will like our cafe - would be a more natural English equivalent.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/borim8
  • 1120

The way this sentence is translated into English sounds very awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisCorney

"the one who likes coffee will like..." is not how english speak. Could be "those who like coffee will like..." but by far most common way to say would be "if you like coffee you will like.. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PauletteSm

Anyone who likes coffee will like our cafe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kirsten54022

That's just been marked as wrong for me!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gph17

"The one who likes coffee will like our café" is not strictly wrong in English, but it is unnatural. It's almost as if a writer was having someone speak whose English was good, but not perfect... a Russian language robot, perhaps...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/importantpapoose

Why not "whoever likes coffee will like our cafe"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kpagcha

Why тому? I don't get these constructions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/servolock

The key is "понравится". Remember the idiom for "I like..."? It's "мне нравится ..." This reflexive verb takes the dative case, and this sentence uses the same construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Тому means "to whom." Simple. To whom does coffee нравится, meaning "who likes the coffee? That person," тому человеку нравится.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Woland2244

It's like in English whom. You can say "who loves" i.e кто любит, or "the ones that like coffee".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/palmik235

Anyone who likes coffee will like our cafe. Sounds more natural although not an exact translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jtaylor162

Is "SOMEONE who likes coffee will like our cafe" really wrong?? It is a lot more natural in American English than "The one..." (I suppose we'd be even more likely to say "ANYONE who likes...", but that probably diverges a bit from the meaning of тому).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescoBellati

Why is it "понравится" and not "нравится"? So why is it perfective?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Нравится would mean

"One who loves coffee likes our café."

As opposed to понравится,

"One who loves coffee will like our café."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescoBellati

Alright, but that's a perfective right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

нравиться - imperfective

понравиться - perfective,

But in this exercise, "понравится" denotes future tense. To use "нравится" here would mean that a person who loves coffee ALREADY likes our café. It doesn't make sense, since it doesn't refer to a specific person but instead to the ambiguous "one" who loves coffee.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrancescoBellati

Very kind, thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirshner1

Is anyone can put that sentence in another words?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Тот, кто любит кофе, полюбит наше кафе


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirshner1

I have thought about some versions. Can you please tell me if they are fine options? 1. Тому, любящий кофе, понравится наше кафе. 2. Тому, который любит кофе, понравится наше кафе. 3. Любящему кофе, понравится наше кафе. If any of them is not correct, I would like to learn why. Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

To me, they don't sound necessarily incorrect, but they do sound awkward colloquially; or, they could be something written in a formal news article or report. Spoken Russian tends to take the less complicated route than "official" Russian such as news print.

But, I haven't lived in a Russian-speaking country in many years, so I defer to a current resident of such a country to give their opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

I wanted to translate this in more natural English as "Those who love coffee...", but I presume that would have to be "Тем, кто любит кофе..."?

As I've remarked elsewhere, it's often hard to know when a free translation to better English is not allowed, or allowed, or even required. ((


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveBKK

Is this а 'bookish' construction? I mean, do you see it in writing more than hear it in speech?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Not really, in my opinion


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveBKK

Thanks, Vadim, I am an ancient Brit and English word order is not as flexible as Russian. I am thinking about an old and formal expression: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN. No one says that in English, but you still see it in writing. I guess the Russian is something like: ТОМУ, КТО ДЕЛО КАСАЕТСЯ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

You're very welcome Steve. I'm a middle-aged American. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R_Andersson

Is кофе masculine or neuter?

Кофе is a strange word. From a glance at the Wiktionary article, I see that it has many variants, but most of them are now dated: кофей, кофий, кава, кафа, кафе, кофь, кохий and кефа just too mention a few. In addition, a friend of mine here at Duolingo called Jelena (lavendeltee for the Ru--De course) pointed out that кофе is masculine, although it ends in е. According the Wiktionary,

The word ко́фе is masculine, but is often informally treated as neuter: “горячее ко́фе”. Such usage is usually frowned upon by educated people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

So should it be наш кофе here, then?


[deactivated user]

    This sentence has «наше кафе» 'our café'. Кофе is not modified by any adjective here, so we don't know which side the course creators take in the fight over the gender of the word кофе. :D


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/R_Andersson

    I think you would hear наше кофе more often in colloquial spoken Russian and that this is the reason the course creators have chosen to treat кофе as neuter. In the Russian formal book language, you are almost certain to come across наш кофе (not *наший).

    However, I just typed наше кофе and мое кофе into Google’s Ngram Search, but it yielded no results. I find that weird.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

    Considering that кофе is masculine, the non-appearance of наше кофе is not surprising at all.

    Why do you think you'd hear it in colloquial spoken Russian?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michaelcrew1920

    То чувство, когда настолько сложно, что 30 секунд думал , тот или тому...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quartz0002

    Вот именно!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Valentino-Borgia

    Translation, please!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randie2933

    WT.... Кафе is NOT diner........


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

    In English it's often more natural to use the plural "those who like coffee will like our cafe". Of course that's a slightly free translation. Could this be accepted too?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

    I'm amused by people who downvote legitimate comments or questions without providing an explanation. I guess some people behave differently when anonymous. (((


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_Nicholas1_

    Would "Those who..." be correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Peter643610

    Is anyone who likes coffee such poor English?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

    It's fine, but would correspond to "кто-нибудь, который любить кофе", which is a slightly different sentence.

    BTW: Could you delete your other versions of this question?)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim_I

    The DL version might work in a nineteenth century poem but it certainly isnt modern English and is in no way the"correct" translation for the sentence. I agree with the suggestions above that either "anyone who likes" or those who like" or even , at an archaic sexist pinch, 'he who likes' but not "the one who likes" .That is, I'm afraid, laughable and undermines DL credibility.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tim_I

    Laughable as a translation. Peter 643610 probably has the best alternative although "those who like" also works. "The one who likes", while technically possible, in certain very restricted circumstances is either a mistake or a questionable example for teaching at this level.

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