"A lot of us are old."

Translation:Wielu z nas jest starych.

January 10, 2016

47 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/odwl

i am confused with singular and plural here. "wielu z nas" seems plural and starych is confirming this. But why then are we using "jest" and not "są" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

In terms of the 'być' verb, such words as 'mało', 'dużo', 'wielu', 'wiele' and so on take the singular form, even though they denote plural. I understand why it may be confusing, but for a native it's hard to even imagine "Wielu z nas są starych" or "Wielu z nas jest stary", that's just wrong on so many levels.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ollyfer

So, if we use adverbs like “wielu” in this context, the verb “być” will remain singular but the following adjective has to be in Plural (even Genitive Plural)? I cannot imagine that not one native speaker ever wondered about the illogical composition of such rules. To pretend to be Singular in the front but behaving like a Plural in the back. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrejCzapszys

What case is "starych" here? Not nominative. Is it genitive to agree with "nas"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, it's Genitive, "wielu" and most (if not all) quantifiers take Genitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eggers7

This rule in itself is well known and not so difficult; what strikes me as odd is that it also applies in sentences without direct object such as this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I don't understand why a direct object would matter, this works in any noun phrase that itself is either in Nominative ("wielu z nas" is a noun phrase in Nominative that has also Genitive inside) or Accusative (so the direct object). In other cases "z nas" wouldn't change, but if it was let's say "Wielu chłopców", then both words would undergo declension.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatthewSta14

what's the difference between wiele and wielu?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/immery

gramatical gender. and cases.
Wiele = feminine nouns, neuter nouns, masculine nouns that do not describe a person (nominative, accusative , wielu- genitive,dative, locative, wieloma- instrumental)
Wielu= male persons. (all cases)

I have no idea about mixed gender persons group, as my gut disagrees with my brain. (according to sjp.pwn wiele ludzi - many people is old-fashioned, and wielu ludzi is more proper)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nixelee

Thanks for the explanation! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cszerszen

To clarify- wielu or wiele take a singular verb but a plural adjective?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cszerszen

Since nas is already genitive, what is the purpose of adding the "z"? Would z be used in all instances where wielu is used with a personal pronoun?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, you have "a lot of people" = "many people" = "wielu ludzi", but it's something a bit different here. You can't substitute "a lot of us" with "many us", right? It's indeed "many of us". "[a lot of/many] out of us". That's also why you need the "z" in Polish, because it is in fact something a bit different grammatically.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hharves1

Aaah Polish is so hard!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Why is the adjective after jest in genitive case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Hmm... I guess that's because a quantifier like "Wielu" by definition takes Genitive. It's more obvious if you imagine just a noun case "many old people" = "Wielu starych ludzi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

I completely understand "wielu starych." That matches up to my Russian brain. I guess "wielu jest starych" is just not intuitive for me. My brain wants to say either "wielu jest stare" or "wielu są stare(?)" or "wielu jest/są starymi ludźmi"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Those numerals (and quantifiers) that take Genitive are also grammatically singular. I guess it's hard to see logic in it, but then also no Pole would actually imagine "Wielu ludzi jest stare" or "Pięć kotów są szare"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/F4yY9kZj

It's as if the adjective modifies 'nas', which is genitive plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stevenprob

what is wrong with:- Wiele z nas jest starą ??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

The "starą" part. "A lot of us are one old woman"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatharinaMi

Would you still use wielu...starych, when speaking of a group of women?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

No, that's "Wiele" then. Still "starych" though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan.K.M

"Dużo z nas jest starych" why not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

This is also accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dj___

I’m completely confused.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mirko903131

I know the feeling, mate. Wiele and wielu always take a verb in the third person singular and an adjective in the plural genitive. Why? Nobody knows.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janice387295

So...I feel like a kid listening to the adults talk. Where can I learn about genitive, accusative and all the "tives"? Im wondering how I got this far without them .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

https://mowicpopolsku.com/polish-grammar/cases/ - this website is a great resource for learners.

Just watch out for the article about Genitive, some neuter examples are wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingo22222222

How to write this if all of us are female, then is the following correct? Wiela z nas jest stara??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Wiele z nas jest starych.

'Wiele' is the nonvirile version of 'wielu' and 'starych' remains as it is, because genitive plural doesn't distinguish gender.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiele#Declension

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stary#Declension_2


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolingo22222222

Thank you. It is interesting that the subject and verb are in the singular Wielu/Wiele - jest but the predicate adjective is in the plural. Ah, I found more information about this – this appears to be a special case of a few quantifiers kilka, parę, wiele which behave like numbers above 5 in terms of the noun cases and verb forms taken" according to Wikipedia.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarjanvanK

why not : Wiele z nas jest starych ? like wielu z nas ....... ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/va-diim

Wiele would be females or something other than masculine personal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarjanvanK

But why without < z > ? when you are talking about females or something other than masculine personal ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanKLinde

I think Alik simply forgot to type the 'z'. It should be there...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

Whoops... Thanks, fixed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/F4yY9kZj

Looks good to me; was it rejected?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It is correct and accepted. It depends on 'our' gender, if 'we' are only women, then the right form is "wiele".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dpmusic85

Based on the discussion here, is it correct that jest is singular because it corresponds to wielu, while starych is genitive plural because it corresponds to nas?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes, I'd say so. I mean, logically "wielu" is also plural in meaning, but such quantifiers are grammatically singular in Polish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wiecho5

Nie przyjęło mi: "Wielu nas jest starych.", a sądzę, że powinno zaakceptować. Może dlatego, że korzystam z telefonu?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Wydaje mi się, że to jednak musi być "Wielu z nas".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wiecho5

Do końca przekonany nie jestem, ale awanturował się nie będę. Pozdrawiam.

Learn Polish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.