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muid versus sinn

Hello, I have only completed the first two lessons in the tree, so bear with me. Early on, we learn the English translations of pronouns like "I," "he," "she," "we," you" (plural), "you" (singular), and "they." However, the lesson states that both "muid" and "sinn" can be used for "we."

Can someone tell me the difference? When would you use muid or sinn?

2 years ago

4 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Gramadach na Gaeilge has this to say on the issue of Muid and Sinn:

  • Sinn is the older form and is probably predominantly used in Munster, (but known worldwide as in the party name Sinn Féin = Ourselves)
  • Muid is made up of the present tense verb suffix -imid (e.g. tuigimid = we understand);
  • Muid is today more often as sinn and stems as a pronoun originally
    from Ulster. In older grammar books[ 1 ] the use of muid was very much frowned upon, but without success.
  • Occastionally, muid is recommended as a subject form after analytical verb forms (e.g.: tuigeann muid thú = we understand you), sinn on the other hand to be used as the object form (e.g.: tuigeann tú sinn = you understand us). Muid appears still also the object form.

The FGB says of sinn, 1 pl. pron. We, us. 1. We. (a) (With copula) and of muid pl. pron. We, us. 1. We. (a) (Subject of vb.) so they are used slightly differently as well.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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A century ago, this is how Dinneen distinguished muid from sinn :

{@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Muid, the 1st pl. termination of verbs separated from the stem, and somet. used as equivalent to “we” in Con. and U., as {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}tá muid = {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}táimid, we are.

{@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Sinn, per. pr., we, us; emph., {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}sinn-ne or {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}sinne, ourselves, we ourselves; {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}sinn féin, we ourselves (also {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}inn, now rare).

Now, both muid and sinn are accepted as personal pronouns (each for both “we” and “us”) in the Caighdeán (§8.2); the choice is largely determined by dialect.

All of the Irish personal pronouns also have emphatic forms; the emphatic forms for muid and sinn are muidne and sinne respectively.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mwasson
mwasson
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So, if I'm understanding your and Knocksedan's posts correctly, this was due to native Irish learners of Ulster and Connacht reanalyzing the synthetic "-imid" as an analytic form with the neologism "muid." That's an awesomely clear example of language change.

And I didn't know about "inn", which nicely parallels í/é/iad.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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For a terse history of sinn, see the first paragraph of the eDIL entry for .

2 years ago