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https://www.duolingo.com/Fantomius

What's the proper response to "Kiom vi aĝas?"

Fantomius
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I'm a little confused about the Esperanto word "aĝi." Namely, is it transitive or intransitive? That is, is its response (if given in years) take the -n accusative ending?

If someone were to ask me:

  • Kiom vi aĝas?

Which of these is the proper response:

  • Mi aĝas dudek jaroj. (Edit: This is likely incorrect.)
  • Mi aĝas dudek jarojn. (Edit: This is likely the correct version.)

I realize that there are many other ways to answer that question. Here are a few more:

  • Mi havas dudek jarojn.
  • Mi estas dudek-jara.
  • Mi estas dudek-jaraĝa.
  • Mi estas dudek-jarul(in)o.

But I'm asking about the case where the verb aĝi is used. I've tried googling for examples, but they seem to be split between using the accusative ending (-n) and not using it.

(And if there are other ways you know of to state your age that I didn't include here, please post them here. Thanks!)

2 years ago

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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Experienced speaker here. Your edits to your OP are right on.

As for what I would do if someone asked "kiom vi agxas vi" - I would answer "Mi havas XX jarojn" because that's the phrase that comes naturally to mind for me.

The -n in "mi agxas 22 jarojn" is often called the accusative of measurement.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Abeneezer

Interesting username

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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It was the name we'd give at a restaurant when reserving a table for an Esperanto meeting.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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I am also currently learning the language, so please don't consider my answer as authoritative.

It is transitive. If it wasn't, you couldn't speak of the age (years) in the same phrase without a proposition. "Mi aĝas dudek jarojn" is correct. Aĝi is just a standard verb, so if you think you can put the word "jaro" after it then it must be transitive and must take the -n ending.

Perhaps you are confused because you tend to think of that verb like "esti" or "fariĝi" (and perhaps few other verbs, I'm not sure) which are special in the sense that they are not treated like the rest of the verbs and whatever noun you put after them don't take -n ending."

edit: http://vortaro.net/#a%C4%9Di

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Fantomius
Fantomius
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Thank you. What you say makes a lot of sense.

And you're right in saying that I was thinking of aĝi being used somewhat like esti (and the few other verbs that, like it, are special).

Thanks again for clarifying. It's nice to finally know for sure.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Abeneezer

The last part about 'esti' not taking an accusative-cased object is because it is the copula of esperanto. I dont know about 'fariĝi' though.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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Fariĝi is likewise.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Abeneezer

Pretty sure farigxi is just an intransitive verb (the -igx ending) that can't take an object.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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I think Zubiz was saying that farigxi works like a copula. If so, he's right.

Li farigxas granda. Knabo farigxas viro.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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After a long search I managed to find a list of verbs that display copula behavior here:

http://bertilow.com/pmeg/gramatiko/specialaj_priskriboj/perverba/subjekto.html

Aliaj priskribaj verboj:

Verbon, kiu peras priskribon, oni povas nomi priskriba verbo. Esti estas la ĉefa priskriba verbo. Kiam ĝi peras priskribon, ĝi ne vere esprimas ian signifon, sed nur ligas la priskribon al la subjekto. (Esti tamen ne ĉiam estas nura priskriba verbo.) Aliaj priskribaj verboj enhavas pli da propra signifo:

fariĝi (= “komenci esti”): La domo fariĝis alta. Mia frato fariĝos doktoro.

iĝi (= “komenci esti”): La mistero iĝas pli kaj pli stranga.

resti (= “plu esti”): Ili restis Germanoj.

ŝajni (= “esti laŭŝajne”): Li ŝajnis gasto en la hotelo.

montriĝi: Mi scias, ke mi montriĝos prava.

nomiĝi: La hundo nomiĝas Fido.

elektiĝi: Li elektiĝis kasisto.

aperi: Li aperis mensoganto.

aspekti (= “esti laŭ la aspekto”): Ŝi aspektis kolera.FA1.195

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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Yes, that's what I meant, I actually tried to explain it in more detail in my first post (with the link).

Now I would like to know if there are other verbs that work the same way, I mean displaying copula behavior. What about iĝi? Can you please clarify about iĝi? And are there any verbs similar to those? Thanks in advance.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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Zubit, yes, lots of verbs can display this copula behavior.

Mi kreskis sana. Li mortis malricxa. Ili alvenis tre lacaj.

It works for objects too.

Mi kolorigas la muron rugxa. Li trovis la viktimon morta. Karlo vidis sxin veni.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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Oh, you asked about igxi. It generally means "become". It's possible to overuse it,, but sometimes it's necessary to break it off from the verb to avoid a double meaning. (No examples spring to mind,) Usually you'd want to say "farigxi", but if anybody corrects you for saying "igxis malhele" instead of "farigxis malhele" or "malheligxis", just smile and keep talking.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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Hm, but those examples are not like esti or fariĝi in the sense that they don't allow non-n-finished nouns after them. When I look at your examples I see "muron", "viktimon", "ŝin". That's normal because they are actually the objects of those verbs. What I was actually asking is more examples to complete the following list:

Mi estas viro. Knabo fariĝos viro. Ovo iĝos koko.

etc.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/salivanto
salivanto
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Zubiz, I listed two sets of three examples each. The first set had the words kreski, morti, and alveni - which don't take objects. You are correct that the second set includes objects (muron, viktimon, and sxin) but they also include an additional descriptive word. Just as with "estas" the descriptive word is not marked with an N.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/2_K_
2_K_
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You still have to indicate that "dudek jaroj" doesn't act like a subject. You could use the preposition "je":

Mi aĝas je dudek jaroj.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zubiz
zubiz
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How could "dudek jaroj" possibly act as a subject in a sentence like "Mi aĝas dudek jarojn"? Perhaps you mean "direct object"? I checked and verified that aĝi indeed is transitive so "dudek jaroj" has to act as a direct object, hence must take -n ending. Please see the link in my comment, there you will find a clear example.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/2_K_
2_K_
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Of course context and common knowledge tell us that the years cannot be the subject. Strictly grammatically speaking, a noun, any noun, if in a Esperanto sentence without the -n termination and without a preposition, would be considered the subject of the sentence. (Exceptions with "estas" ktp.)

Then again, if the verb "aĝi" is transitive, the -n termination is perfect and the way to go. (thanks for checking this)

2 years ago