"Dw i'n bwyta bara menyn."

Translation:I eat bread and butter.

2 years ago

29 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/HerrArbo
HerrArbo
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Why is there no need for "a" in this sentence?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wynnigheard

Crush is right. You could put "a", but it'd be unnatural. We don't say "bread and butter", it's literally "butter bread".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/crush
crush
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I'm not sure, maybe you could think of it as "butter bread" or "buttered bread"?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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OK, I thought I'd see some similarities with Irish but so far I haven't. Like, "bread" in Irish is instead "arán", so "bara" seams to be of more English influence :/ (could very possibly be wrong, actually, I am wrong XD)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dpchalmers
dpchalmers
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Unfortunately, you are. 'Bara' derives from Proto-Celtic (as indeed does 'arán') so is etymologically unrelated to English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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There is an Irish cognate: bairín (loaf). Before the spelling reform, it was bairghean, and the Old Irish was bairgen https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bara#Welsh

http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/bairghean

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Iawn, diolch! Dych chi Cymraeg? (??)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wynnigheard

"Dych chi Cymraeg?"

I reckon you're trying to say "Are you Welsh?", but you've said essentially "Are you the Welsh language?"

"Are you Welsh" is "Ydych chi'n Cymry?"

"Do you speak Welsh", however is "Ydych chi'n siarad Cymraeg?"

Cymraeg = Welsh language Cymry = Welsh people Cymreig = Welsh thing Cymro = Welshman Cymraes = Welsh woman Cymru = Wales

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ieuan-Jones
Ieuan-Jones
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I've always said "Wyt ti'n siarad cymraeg" for "Do you speak Welsh", is that incorrect? I don't ever remember being taught Ydych chi'n in school, for some reason.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Willowfae
Willowfae
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chi is the formal you. I'm guessing you say ydych for chi and wyt for ti. I could well be wrong though!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wynnigheard

Willowfae's right!

"Wyt ti'n" is informal

"Ydych chi'n" is formal

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Yes, I was trying to say "are you Welsh?" :/ thanks for the tip! So, ydych chi'n Cymry? ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SecretAgentWoman

Nice... I'd like to ask you something about your other comment, but I don't see the reply button there. It's about "Ydych chi'n" being formal... Is it 2nd person plural form as well? And is that why you say "Ydych chi'n Cymry?" instead of "Ydych chi'n Cymro?"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wynnigheard

Yes.

"chi" is literally "y'all", but it's also used to address one person politely.

Like in Spanish 'usted' and French 'vous', they're literally the plural forms, but also used as a formal distinction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction#Welsh.2C_Cornish_and_Breton

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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So "arán" and "bara" have the same origin then? I looked up how it was in the other Celtic languages and they're all very similar exceptuating in Scottish Gaelic ("breid") which I thought did come from English. I checked it first in an etymological dictionary just to make sure I didn't mess up again and, yes, it seems to come from old English. Instead, in all the other Celtic languages it has no relation to English (arán, arran, bara), how interesting ;)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Wynnigheard

Scottish Gaelic ("breid")

You seem to be confused here. It's "breid" in Scots. Scots is a totally different language from Scottish Gaelic.

In Scottish Gaelic the word is aran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Oh! I did know what Scots was, I probably looked it up in a Scots translator page, though I did look for "English to Scottish Gaelic translator" :/

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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bara has the same origin as Irish bairín (loaf). Both come from Proto-Celtic bargo or barginā. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bara#Welsh

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Oh, that's interesting... thank you!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clochan1
clochan1
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Wondering is there a connection between this 'bara' and the Irish 'báirín breac' little speckled loaf , the báirín part

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Yep, according to what balbhan said above. "Bara" and "bairín" have the same origin. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bara#Welsh

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clochan1
clochan1
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Thanks, I thought it must ,So far tho, I haven't found many words similar to Irish, but maybe when I get used to the spellings and pronunciation of the Welsh words, it might be easier to spot them.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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So, you speak Irish well then?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clochan1
clochan1
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I am fluent in Irish, yes, but am not a native speaker. 'Book' or 'school' Irish...reinforced by much reading and practice in speaking Irish and visits to the Gaeltacht areas

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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I see... I guess that's the situation of many people in Ireland, right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clochan1
clochan1
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Not really. Many of the people who learned it at school as part of the curriculum , do not speak Irish at home and do not speak it to their children......in fact they do not become fluent in the language and gradually forget it. Many others become interested in it and try to convert others to become involved in the restoration of the language, speak it daily and pass it on to their children. There is increasing interest in it in recent years, but it is a difficult task...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PauBofill
PauBofill
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Oh, okay, that's sort of what I thought. I wouldn'h have guessed that some people had started to speak it to their children though... nonetheless I'd say few people do that, am I right?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/clochan1
clochan1
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I'm glad to say that many families living in non Gaeltacht areas are speaking Irish on a daily basis to their children. There are many Gaelscoileanna in Dublin and in every county in Ireland that teach the school subjects through the medium of Irish too. That is a big help to those parents , as they and their children then make friends with other like minded families. There are Irish classes available too through Connradh na Gaeilge, Gael-linn and other organisations . Biggest problem facing us is the lack of real interest and lack of financial support from the Government .

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NoelGoetowski
NoelGoetowski
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Dw i'n hoffi bara menyn, dw i'n hoffi tost a jam...

2 years ago
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