"Dach chi eisiau llefrith rŵan?"

Translation:Do you want some milk now?

January 27, 2016

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Nick_Olsen
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is this different to 'Dych chi' at all?

January 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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"Dach chi" is used in the north more, "Dych chi" in the south. They mean the same.

January 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Raizel

If you see an "a" where you expect another vowel, it's probably northern.

July 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/loopylinda

Llaeth is used for milk also. Is this another north/south thing?

February 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jonlang_

Yes, but llaeth is more "standard" and is what you're likely to encounter in supermarkets in the north too, where "llefrith" is just northern colloquial.

February 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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This is a really good point. When you see a northern and a southern word, often one of them is also considered more "standard", e.g. southern standard llaeth (milk), gyda (with "company"), bachgen (boy), nawr (now) as opposed to northern llefrith, efo, hogyn, rŵan; and northern standard oeddwn (I was), mai (that), gan (with "possession"), i mi (to/for me) as opposed to southern o'n, taw, gyda, i fi. So it's good to be aware of both.

A lot of the standard forms are actually northern, or originate in the north. This is because when the Bible was translated into Welsh in 1588 it became widely-read and the basis for the modern literary language, and the translator, William Morgan, was from Tŷ Mawr Wybrnant in the north. I sometimes wonder what modern Welsh would be like now if he'd been a southerner.

February 29, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Alannamac

Yes llaeth is southern whereas llefrith is northern

February 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlisonJWalker

Could we not have a south version and a north version. This is confusing!

February 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Jonlang_

And then you'd be confused when you go to one area or another!

But the southern version is Dych chi eisiau llaeth nawr or Dych chi'n moyn llaeth nawr.

February 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/CacenCwningen

I guess it's just that as words get tossed around when spoken quickly over a long period of time (I may well be wrong, life is all about the art of guessology); for example 'christmas' used to be 'chr-EYE-stmas', but ended up as 'chr-ih-stmas'.

October 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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Just as an aside if you're interested, it's the vowel in "Christmas" that hasn't really changed and the vowel in "Christ" that has - originally it rhymed more with "wrist".

November 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Salsmachev
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Is W with the circumflex (ˆnot sure what it's called in Welsh, but in French it's a circumflex) pronounced differently from the normal W? I played it a couple times and couldn't hear a difference.

May 27, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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W as a vowel in Welsh is pronounced either short ("oo" in "look", [ʊ]) or long ("oo" in "food", [uː]), depending on the word. Ŵ is always pronounced long ("oo" in "food" again, [uː]).

We call the circumflex in Welsh to bach (little roof).

June 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Salsmachev
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Thank you.

June 4, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Lerura
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Why is there a southern word in a northern sentence. According to the introduction page, it should be "Dach chi isio llefrith r^wan" to be northern. Is it common to mix northern and southern words in a sentence. or have I missed something out here

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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I wouldn't call eisiau southern; it's the standard spelling of northern isio and southern isie and ise. It's just that for some reason, courses for north Wales use colloquial spelling: isio, whereas courses for southern spelling use standard spelling: eisiau, which is inconsistent.

This doesn't negate your point however that it's weird to see eisiau in a sentence that includes dach, llefrith and rŵan. Isio would be a better choice.

February 16, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/TobiasAgar

So is Dych chi'n eisiau... Incorrect?

August 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Jonlang_

The compliment marker yn is not used with eisiau (want) or angen (need). This is because they are not verbs - they're nouns! They are described, when used like this, as defective verbs, meaning they are used as verbs in colloquial Welsh but, grammatically, they are nouns.

The "proper" way to use eisiau and angen is: Mae eisiau X arnaf i where X is the thing you want, which can be a verb or a noun; Mae eisiau mynd arnaf i 'I want to go', mae eisiau afal aranaf i 'I want an apple'. This construction literally translates as 'there is a want for X on me'.

In the south they use an actual verb, mofyn (usually seen and heard as moyn) which uses yn: Dwi'n mofyn mynd 'I want to go'.

August 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
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Yes. This is explained in the notes for the sections on 'Wanting'.

This pattern with eisiau is an exception in Welsh in that it does not not use 'n/yn to make the link with dw i etc.

August 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Dim-ond-dysgwr

It is, I'm afraid -- because "eisiau" does not take what is known, in such circumstances, as the "linking 'yn'" (as appears, for example, in "Dych chi'n deall?" = "Do you understand?" as well as in 99.99% of other similar sentences). It's anomalous, I know -- and to that extent a little annoying -- but probably best just to accept that it is so... :)

A fuller explanation does exist, but I don't want to "blind anyone with science" ...willing victims excepted, of course. :)

August 10, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/John_B_Kohler

What are the odds llefrith is a transliteration of "lait frais"?

May 12, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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Llefrith is from llef "weak" + blith "milk, lactation", which refers to "new/sweet/fresh milk", so French "lait frais" would be one translation of that.

June 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/RotterdamClare

There are a few welsh words that are similar to french: pont for bridge, eglwys and église for church, ffenestr and fenêtre for window just to name some. We can thank (?) the Romans for that as they are Latin based words.

June 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/shwmae
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Yep, it's the Romans: pons, ecclesia, fenestra.

There are many others e.g. lleng < legio, ystafell < stabellum; bresych < brassica, gwin < vinum, days of the week: dydd Sul, dydd Llun, dydd Mawrth etc. < dies Solis, dies Lunae, dies Martis etc. and some months: Ionawr, Chwefror, Mawrth etc. < Ianarius, Februarius, Martis etc.

June 29, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Carolyn184776

I'm moving to North Wales and it seems I've been learning South Welsh. Is it worth my while continuing or would I be better finding a site that uses North Welsh as standard?

August 19, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
Mod
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There are about four or five main dialect areas, not two, and many more local variations. The geographical and age boundaries between the dialects are very fuzzy and have large overlaps. There isn't a single dialect which covers all of 'north Wales', nor 'south Wales'. In the later section on 'Dialects', the supporting notes have some links to external sites which have more detail about the main geographical dialect areas. This is an example

This course does not cover any particular dialect in any detail. In the Welsh taught to adult beginners there are really not very many differences to be concerned about - the main thing is to become familiar with the basic structure of the language and some basic vocabulary. The structure of the language is what many beginners have some initial problems with as it is so different from English.

Accents do vary quite a bit, but you will quickly adapt to the local accent wherever you go.

When you do move, get in touch with the local Dysgu Cymraeg providers and start learning with them. The tutors will cover local dialect features as well as the more generic Welsh covered in course books.

August 19, 2017
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