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"Él apareció sin camisa."

Translation:He appeared without a shirt.

2
5 years ago

75 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/RAMOSRAUL

This might not be very easy to explain though. Let me try if I can help:

As you might be aware of, there is double negation in Spanish. That said, I wonder if you would go for this translation: "El apareció sin UNA camisa". This can make sense in some exceptional context, and I will discuss at the end, but is widely incorrect or unsuitable.

You would say " El apareció sin ninguna camisa" would be de equivalent, although I would translate as "he appeared (or showed up) with no shirt".

In the case of nouns such as "water, money, napalm, people" and the like you would use: "El apareció sin nada de napalm", "El apareció sin nada de dinero","El apareció sin nadie".

Going a step back, the sentences "El apareció sin camisa" and "El apareció sin ninguna camisa" are very similar, as both state he had no shirt at all when he arrived. However you would use the latter if he was expected to arrive with more than one shirt (something like you're playing in a team and the chap arrives without the shirts of the team) whilst the first one could be in a situation where you're meeting a friend and the chap arrives shirtless ( so yes, the original sentence could also be something like "he showed up shirtless)

The sentence "El apareció sin UNA camisa" would be used mostly as "El apareció sin una sola camisa" In a context e.g. is the shirt world expo and this exhibitor comes with a bunch of suits but "not a single shirt".

I hope this can clarify a bit the use. As you can see, there are subtle differences on the use, based on context. I believe that is more important the use of the countable/uncontable names with "nada/ninguno(a)" than the other.

323
Reply135 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mitcorb

Thank you, Raul. This is helpful. So, If I were to use "una" while speaking to you, and I might accidentally express this sentence in such a way that you initially thought I was a native speaker, but I used "una" in the sentence, what degree of confusion or irritation would this cause? You did say "widely incorrect". Are you using "widely" in place of "extremely" or, are you inferring that it is commonly applied by native speakers? Once again, thank you. And I am glad you are here.

20
Reply5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RAMOSRAUL

hey mitcorb, no prob, glad to be useful and definitely glad to be here too!

Regarding your first question, I would not be irritated at all, although I have been learning languages too long and not speaking any of them good, therefore I do not get irritated when something sounds funny. Confusion would just happen depending on the context. As you see there is no misunderstanding, I probably might think there might be some references to shirts I miss out, but I would be fairly confident that the message would get across no problem.

Regarding the use of widely, I meant user wise. As you might know, Latin American Spanish can be quite different from Spanish in Spain. Some are subtle, some are big deal. I cannot asses the use of Spanish in Latin America nor wish to discuss what is right and wrong because I believe languages are just about getting a message across. However differences I believe can be compared to American English, British, Australian, ... I have been very surprised to learn that many people in the US is learning Spanish from Mexico actually, (I am talking about what I've seen) and sometimes they get frustrated when many expressions are unknown elsewhere, so the take home message is that local expression should be taken with a pinch of salt because they are not universal! On other hand, I have spoke to many people from many other Spanish speaking countries and, as long as you stick to "standards" you'll be all right. After all that ... I would not be surprised if some native from somewhere else uses that expression. It is definitely not common in Spain and would be interpreted as odd.

31
Reply25 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/shc327

Wow! This explanation was much better than the others i looked up after throwing up my hands after omitting "a" because there was no "una". And i think many of us know that DL sentences often seem strange to native English speakers so you kinda roll the dice on some of your translations. I look forward to following you as well

14
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HabisY

I'm commenting so I can follow your future comments . . .

5
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie282520

How is that done? I am mystified and tried to actually follow them? Can't be done now?

0
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SunilNatraj

Brilliant explanation.

The National language of India - Hindi - follows the exact same pattern. However, having been educated wholly in English, I always think in English and now realize that it might be better to translate from Hindi instead.

4
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sachindec26

Bro..Can u help me understand this thing by translating it from hindi..??

1
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rogercchristie
rogercchristie
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Perhaps:
उन्होंने कहा कि एक शर्ट के बिना दिखाई दिया।

2
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/puffinwoman

This is so cool. Please tell me it is real.

1
Reply3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LisaCQ

Thank you.....you have helped greatly

0
Reply2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/spanishspeaker32

He appeared without a shirt? Creepy...

50
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MJSpice
MJSpice
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Yeah what sort of hanky panky is going on here.

50
Reply24 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/braunboy

Defintely

6
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/and.kelley.love

He is Putin.

37
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

Andrea, I don't know why someone down-voted you; I thought your Putin reference was funny! Also several were down-voted for saying "without shirt" could be OK in English, when it absolutely CAN. Try this example: "Much to his wife's embarassment, he appeared at the fancy dinner party without shirt or tie, but with an empty bottle of vodka in his hand." (Again,it could be Putin!) :-)

15
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mrben83
mrben83
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It requires the indefinite article when it's shirt. However you are correct when saying shirt and tie it isn't needed. For more information take a look at this article:

https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar/determiners-and-quantifiers/indefinite-article-and

PS. Putin joke is hilarious, it's what comes to mind every time I do this sentence!

7
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/and.kelley.love

:)

4
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie282520

shirtless with a comb-over tho?

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

HA! Better to be bald as an egg, than a comb-over.

1
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/aeryn
aeryn
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wolf whistle

21
Reply12 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AnCatDubh
AnCatDubh
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...y dijo: “Hola, me llamo Taylor Lautner.”

9
Reply13 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PabloSueno
PabloSueno
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I think "He appeared with no shirt" is perfectly fine English; and this question suggests that "with no" is an alternative meaning of "sin". Nevertheless duolingo rejected "He appeared with no shirt" as an answer. Seems incorrect.

7
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/GearGirlNani
GearGirlNani
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If the said person is Bruce Lee, you know it's about to get down

6
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MurrayGunn

I am really confused. Duo sometimes wants us to translate sentences word-by-word, and sometimes not.

5
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TezraM

Rule of thumb: Translate word for word.Then if it isn't proper English, make adjustments.

13
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MurrayGunn

Nice tip. Thanks.

2
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/and.kelley.love

Duo does that because that's how the languages are. It is not a feature of the app, it is the features of English and Spanish. Sometimes the translation works out to be very similar to the English wording, and sometimes it is different. Please don't follow the advice to translate word for word by default, as that will really slow down the language-learning process because you will not be grasping the patterns of Spanish sentence structure.

5
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ChiNane
ChiNanePlus
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To the contrary, I always found that I grasp foreign grammar better, if I translate literally first and then modify the phrase to sound natural. It's more fun too.

1
Reply1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gennuisance
gennuisance
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Better than appearing with a shirt but without pants

5
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dtmedic
dtmedic
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At first I put he appeared with no shirt and DL didn't like it. Why would that be wrong? The drop down translation had without and with no as options.

4
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mrben83
mrben83
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I also put this down, going to report it as a valid answer and hope it gets accepted :)

5
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JonathanWh20

You actually can say, "He appeared without shirt" in English. It's a bit archaic but it is correct nonetheless.

4
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rogercchristie
rogercchristie
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If I add a bit: "He turned up without shirt but with trousers (fortunately!)" then that would be acceptable in English.

But we shouldn't suppose that he is bare-chested! So, as suggested above, "he turned up for cricket without shirt and had to borrow one" would also do fine.

As is often the case, context is everything.

3
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rogercchristie
rogercchristie
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Unfortunately DL rejected my answer "He turned up without shirt" and insisted on "... a shirt". I've reported it.

1
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeff838

"he appeared shirtless" was also accepted.

4
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wingo87

lucky you! i wasn't.

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Agent_Gabriel

Hmm.. Is this in an alley during the evening? This is really creepy -__-

3
Reply4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PopTartTastic

So many Twilight references... ugh

3
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Si_Robertson

Why is no "una" needed?

3
Reply3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ChayaDoppelt
ChayaDoppelt
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I think that sometimes the "un/a" is implied and you don't need it. I'm also a learner, so don't take it too seriously

0
Reply1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShalabiEmad

Just like a modern werewolf.

3
Reply2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hundage
hundage
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Like the guy playing the saxophone in the Tina Turner/Jimmy Barnes version of "Simply the Best"

3
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TristanNew4

whistles scandalously

2
Reply1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Roger_Burke

"Without shirt" describes a style, "without a shirt" describes describes an article of clothing left behind. Either works here. Language leaves a lot of room for ambiguity. If you are confident with your English usage don't worry and don't let it slow your learning process. There is no single question that really matters. What does matter is the rate at which you become fluent. Worry about accidents in the road not the bumps in the road.

2
Reply9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/uppergardiner
uppergardiner
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Without shirt is perfectly accepted here in Ireland. Without shirt, without shoes, without trousers, without glasses, without jumper, without umbrella.

1
Reply3 years ago