44 Comments
Is there a way in which I can identify 'kobiety' in genitive here from the nominative plural? Please help me out! :)
there are two ways.
One is form of pronoun/ adjective - genitive singular is tamteJ kobiety,
nominative=accusative plural is "Tamte kobiety"
Other is knowing which case should come after verbs
like- accusative
not like -genitive
Hallo please, Nie lubie want genitive so tamtej is the genitive of tam ? Do you have any link where i can see thi different roules for each verb ? Thank you
"lubić" takes Accusative (as most of the verbs learnt in the first stage of the course), and if we negate Accusative, it turns into Genitive. This is the only case that changes when negated, others just stay the same.
"tamtej" is Genitive of "tamta", the feminine version of "that".
So to add up:
Lubie tamta kobieta (singular, accusative)
Lubie tamte kobiety (plural, accusative)
Nie lubie tamtej kobiety (singular, genitive)
Nie lubie tych kobiet (plural, genitive) (although I haven't heard of this form yet ;))
Pff... just as I got the hang of the first three, the last one is just so unlike the others ;)
Close but
lubię tamtą kobietę (singular, accusative)
nie lubię tamtych kobiet (plural, genitive)
tych = these , tamtych=those (in most forms you add "tam-" to "ten, ta, to," forms)
I noticed that the genitive ending for koszula is "-i," whereas the genitive ending for kobieta is "y." Why this difference, if both words are feminine nouns that end in "a"? Is there an easy rule I could learn?
I do not know if there is a easy rule, but this website http://grzegorj.w.interiowo.pl/gram/en/gram00.html
has a list of every possible patterns of declension and conjunction.
http://grzegorj.w.interiowo.pl/gram/en/odmiana1.html is a list of classic tables, which say that declension pattern depends on the last consonants. kobieta would be group żIV, koszula group żI; I am not sure how accurate they are, but they work for kobieta and koszula.
you can check resources https://www.duolingo.com/comment/13589661. they willl work for declension as well. Note that those tables were not made for easy learning, but to be used as extension of dictionary.
Thanks a bunch for those links, but just to let you know, the first two links do not seem to redirect to anything conjugation or polish courses related.
I rather always thought that "Tej" and "Tego" were akin to "This" and "Tamtej" and "Tamtego" were akin to "That." Is this not the case? Can they really be used so interchangeably?
It's pretty much true (although the actual border between the determiners for each set of distances is running at slightly different place, with Polish using determiners for closer distances more often than English). Is there a context to your question? Have you seen somebody who would use „tej” here instead?
I learned to speak Polish growing up, but I never learned proper grammar nor how to write, thus a lot of my understanding of Polish grammar I've gleaned from listening to conversations. I've always thought the distinction between these two words was "This" vs. "That," but doing some of the lessons here have made me question that assumption. Personally I would also use "tamtej" here, but from what I understand, "tej" would also be perfectly valid?
Edit: Thanks for taking the time to answer, by the way!
You mean whether „tej” or „tamtej” is grammatically correct in this sentence (disregarding the translation)? Yes, both can be correct, it depends on how far away the woman in question is. Isn't it just how "this" and "that" work in English? The only difference is that there is a certain set, where Polish would still use "ten" (this), when English would already use "that" (tamten). I can't recall an example when it would be the other way around, with English still using "this" and Polish already going into "tamten".
Yes, that was my question. It was simply that Duolingo will accept either as valid, but will translate both in the same manner (based on the implied distance of the object in question). I suppose I overlooked the fact that distance is not made especially obvious as these are written questions though, so the distinction must simply be dwarfed in the text. Thanks again!
Why is it genitiv here? I don't like (Who? What?)- this woman, isnt it supposed to be accusative?
"lubić" takes Accusative, true. However, when a sentence which needed Accusative is negated, it takes Genitive itself.
"Lubię tamtą kobietę" (Accusative), but "Nie lubię tamtej kobiety" (Genitive).
As people often spread this rule too far, I have to point out: Accusative is the only case that changes when negated. Other cases stay the same.
Sorry if im stupide but when is it genitive, when nominative usw. I dont get it
Well, cases are a very wide issue, so I advice to take a look here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16296174 and search for comments about cases.
Nominative is the basic, dictionary form. So it will mostly be used for the subject of the sentence, and also for both X and Y in an "X to Y" sentences.
Genitive is needed by some prepositions, by some verbs, but also when negating a sentence that needed Accusative. If you wrote "I like that woman", it's "Lubię tamtą kobietę". "lubić" takes Accusative, like almost all the verbs that you learn at the beginning of this course. So, when negated, it takes Genitive instead.
Don't spread this rule too far: only Accusative changes case when negated, other cases stay the same.
Why is the answer 'I dislike that woman.' considered incorrect here while 'I dislike this man.' is accepted as a valid answer for 'Nie lubię tego mężczyzny.' ?
We kinda forgot about 'dislike' until recently, and there is a surprisingly small number of such reports... but of course it's correct. Added now.
Does anyone know where or what website i can go to to teach me the rules of all this grammer and cases
Check this post for posts about cases and other things: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/16296174
This website: http://mowicpopolsku.com/ is also very good, even if they occasionally have some mistake.
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I wrote: "I do not like this woman" which is wrong as I understand, because tamtej means "that". What I don't understand is, why the correct answer given by Dou is: "I don't like the woman." As i understood "this" - "tej" - and "that" - "tamtej" - are only used to point out which person/ item I mean. I can understand that "tej" can be translated with "the". As there are no articles in Polish. But why should "tamtey" be traslated in "the"?
It shouldn't be accepted, I removed it now. Thanks for reporting.
In short: accepted options for any form of "ta" should be: [this/that/the], with "this" being the main one of course. The only accepted option for any form of "tamta" should be "that".
What would change in the sentence to pluralize woman. "I do not like those women?
I am very confused. The other day I saw a sentence about tasty food, and lubić was "love" in that context. I said "like", and got that one wrong. Now, I tried using "love", and here it should be "like". Why is that?
"lubić" should be "to like", and "kochać" should be "to love".
With things other than people, if the sentence uses "kochać" we usually also accept "to adore" and its Polish equivalent "uwielbiać".
The only sentence with "tasty food" that I can find now has "They are cooking", so none of those. If you can find it and comment there, maybe we can find out if it was a mistake or if there's some specific reason for such a translation.
Your surname suggests that you may probably be a native/fluent in Russian. Unlike Russian, Polish distinguishes very clearly between loving and liking.
I'm having a hard time finding the food sentence. It may have been "Kochacie smaczne jedzenie?", and I probably said "like" because it didn't make sense to "love" tasty food. It's most likely that it felt unnatural to use kochać in that context instead of lubić.
Some Polish people would agree, but for many others it feels perfectly okay to say "kocham" about food. Or football. Or woodworking. But I understand why you felt that. Anyway, whether it feels natural or not, "kocham jedzenie" denotes something stronger than just "I like food".
I don't know what the lady is saying between lubię and kobiety, but it certainly doesn't sound like tamtej. It even sounds like there's an extra syllable in there.
Sounds perfectly fine to my ears... maybe 'm' sounds a bit like 'n', but that just might be me trying to find any problem.
Hmmm... sounds like there's some kind of double-e or something... "tamte-ej"
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Kobiety instead of Kobieta? I though Kobiety was plural as in multiple women... maybe I am doing this course too fast
You are right, but that's not only that. Basically, almost all feminine nouns have the following three forms identical: Nominative plural, Accusative plural, Genitive singular. As this sentence takes Genitive, it means that "kobiety" is singular here. Also, "tamtej" is definitely not plural ;)
