"Ydw, dw i eisiau dysgu Cymraeg."

Translation:Yes, I want to learn Welsh.

1/28/2016, 5:18:24 PM

31 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/AnUnicorn
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dysgu is both teaching and learning? That sounds confusing...

1/28/2016, 5:18:24 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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In English you sometimes hear the word 'learn' used to mean 'teach' as well - like in the phrase 'I'll learn you!', meaning 'I'll teach you!'

1/30/2016, 12:49:15 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/Manachu

Not in proper English.

3/17/2016, 3:12:02 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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Doesn't really matter if it's not a part of "standard" English. It still helps understand the use of the word dysgu in Welsh.

3/17/2016, 4:58:22 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

? It's not a matter of some kind of "official" standard English. Saying "I'll learn ya" is broken, incorrect English, most likely used in error by someone for whom English is not their first language, or in joking imitation of such a person. (Also because it's slang imitation of someone "less cultured" it doesn't literally mean "teach", it is a threat of punishment)

3/30/2016, 9:09:35 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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It's used by natives - therefore part of English. It's not accepted as part of standard English, but what is seen as "correct" is arbitrary, and depends a lot on fashion and the way the "right" people talk. "Ain't" was once accepted as standard; now it is not. http://isismagazine.org.uk/2012/06/the-problem-with-prescriptivism/ "I'll teach you" is also a threat of punishment, so no change there. There's also "he was learning them their sums".

But this is a course for learning Welsh for English speakers - anyone using it should already know English, and not need to have its use explained to them. Whether something is appropriate in formal English is unimportant here, and I only gave the example to make it easier to see how a word could mean both "teach" and "learn".

The Welsh this course teaches is also rather colloquial - it's meant to teach you the kind of Welsh the Jones's next door might use. nesaf and adref are "proper" Welsh; but nesa and adre are also accepted. Similarly, rydw i and dydw i ddim are considered by some to be "better" than than dw i and dw i ddim, which are the default options on this course.

3/30/2016, 9:41:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/brittalexiswm

In Swedish, it is the same except you need a pronoun to go with it to make it specific.

3/30/2016, 5:34:14 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/digitalshade

Yep, you get used to it as the context mostly helps you figure out which one they mean...mostly.

1/28/2016, 9:56:24 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/AnUnicorn
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I suppose it kind of makes a kind of sense since both things happen at the same time, like how the striker and the goalie are on opposing teams but you'd still say they're both "playing football" together.

And a lot of students and teachers feel like they're in opposition to each other...

1/29/2016, 12:29:59 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/Kibo-Chopper

Sometimes Eisiau Sounds like Ei-Shi-ai and other times it sounds like Ei-Si-Ai, how to pronounce it correctly?

1/30/2016, 3:28:43 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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It's a regional thing. Nearly everyone says words like siarad, siop and Siân with a 'sh'.

There's also a tendency for North Wales to say 's' as 'sh' before 'i' (es i > 'eshi'), and for South Wales to say 's' as 'sh' after 'i' (mis > 'mish'). But these are just general tendencies, and people can vary. You should probably just pick a reasonably consistent way of saying it and stick to that.

1/30/2016, 6:00:16 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Kibo-Chopper

Thank you

1/31/2016, 8:18:18 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Heysoos1
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It also sounds like they drop the 'i' sometimes. So does the 'u' always make that sound?

2/13/2016, 5:19:53 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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Not sure what you mean by dropping the i, but if you mean the second i in eisiau, then yes - that reflects the same thing as in siarad, siop, Siân, where the i only indicates a "sh" sound. But the pronunciation of eisiau varies a lot. I'd be wary of saying that any particular way didn't exist! Most words don't vary so much though.

The sound u has: In South Wales u is identical to Welsh i - which is like English "i" (in "it"), or "ee" depending on context (obvious from the spelling). In North Wales it's a very slightly different sound that doesn't exist in English, except in the "e" in "roses" (for some accents).

Here, au is the English "aye" sound. You seem to know Spanish, so just apply the values that pairs of vowels have in Spanish, bearing in mind that u is treated like Spanish "i", and w is like Spanish "u". So au is like Spanish "ai", and aw is like Spanish "au".

Here's a link for Welsh spelling, which is extremely consistent, and actually more logical than English. It's got technical stuff in it, but it does explain it all clearly, and gives English equivalents for the sound each letter makes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_orthography

2/15/2016, 7:00:34 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

balbhan, but when do people NOT pronounce the SI as SH? I'm wondering if they ever pronounce it as SH in this course as many other examples of SI here are pronounced S instead of SH. It's quite frustrating because when you look up "welsh pronounciation" online, you don't find pages that say it varies

3/29/2016, 9:34:13 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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I'd expect most Northerners to consistently say "shi" (although people being people, I'm sure there are some who don't!).

I wouldn't expect Southerners to do that, unless there was another vowel after si - like in siarad, siop etc. On the other hand, Southerners seem to say "sh" after i.

This course is mostly Southern in pronunciation, although I think there are some bits of Northern here and there. The difference is too small to make much of a difference, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I'd be surprised to find many people saying "s" rather than "sh" in eisiau, as it fits all the "sh" conditions I described, but there could be some people who do use "s". Try this for a page on variations. Bear in mind that /ʃ/ is phonetic notation for the "sh" sound: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_phonology#Consonants

3/30/2016, 10:49:15 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

In the audio for this course, SI is almost never pronounced SH. The audio for this very question says ess-see-aye (maybe slightly ess-scee-eye)

3/30/2016, 1:16:00 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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The course maintainers unfortunately can't teach the computer voice to do anything - it's something produced by an external company that gets most things right and (as with pretty much all TTS voices) gets something wrong, and there's not really anything you can do about that except disable listening exercises for sentences where the voice is particularly misleading or confusing.

3/31/2016, 4:39:26 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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The course audio does have some glitches, being computer-generated - but eisiau varies wildly in its pronunciation, to the point that there's the alternative spelling isio.

If you want to be sure whether "s" is ever used rather than "sh", your best bet is checking recordings in other places and what natives think. I think EllisVaughan and shwmae are natives.

3/30/2016, 9:47:54 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

Ah well, I'm sure if the creators of this course wanted SI to be pronounced SH, they would have told the computer voice to use that sound instead, but it seems they haven't done that anywhere, so I'll pretend I never heard of it.

3/30/2016, 10:53:38 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/DesertGlass

Ahh that's a shame. Thanks mizinamo (grrr annoying threading showing posts out of order)

4/1/2016, 11:34:58 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/deserttitan

Some places even pronounce it [ee-shuh]. That's how I learned it for South Walian.

2/6/2016, 10:34:28 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/CScubing
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I want to learn all the languages.

5/21/2016, 3:59:33 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/gabrielcrochelle

I used "study" instead of "learn"

3/3/2016, 3:34:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/TyNoOutlet
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I think its odd how "dd" together make "th". Does it always sound like this? Please explain.

3/19/2016, 7:31:08 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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No more odd than that "th" makes a sound different from both "t" and "h"!

In Welsh, th is like the English "th" in "thick", and dd is like the "th" in "this". It's actually easier than in English - where you can never be sure which "th" sound you're supposed to say. Words beginning with d mutate to dd (dydd > ddydd), so it makes sense to spell it similarly.

Welsh spelling is really consistent though - so once you've learnt it, you can pronounce any Welsh word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_orthography#Letter_names_and_sound_values

3/19/2016, 7:46:46 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Heysoos1
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F makes the V sound, Ff makes the F sound, (think off and of). Dd makes the Th as in he (hard th) Th makes the Th as in math (the soft th) Ll is unvoiced so it's whispering the L. And there are a few others. This video really helped me a lot, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r2AX5v55ds

One thing I still haven't got figured out is that sometimes at the end of words the "s" sounds like a "th." Can somebody confirm/explain that?

3/19/2016, 7:49:37 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
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That shouldn't happen - it's probably a bug in the voice recording if you're hearing that. The editors are aware of the glitches that exist in some places, but there's not much they can do, as they're using a pre-made set of recordings. Overall it's quite good though - so don't be put off!

3/19/2016, 8:19:12 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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Yes, dd is a separate letter of the Welsh alphabet, and it has the sound of English th as in then, that, though (but not in thick, three, thigh).

3/19/2016, 7:46:21 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/TyNoOutlet
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Diolch!

3/19/2016, 7:51:31 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/NestorHern404226

It's very interesting, a lot of languages use the same verb for “teach” and “learn”.

5/11/2016, 1:15:03 PM
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