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https://www.duolingo.com/saoihgoljiyf

Something I think Duolingo does wrong.

My dad works as a tourist guide all across Europe and before I went to work in Italy he told me that in order to learn a language fast you need to learn the pronouns , the number and most importantly the verbs only at indicative.

So i did exact that and boy he was right.

At first you dont need to study substantives , adjectives and conditional verbs , because it just fills your memory and its not a vital part of the language.

Now i am learning norwegian and I find it annoying the fact that i have to learn adjectives before I learn all forms of the verbs.

It doesnt make sense from my perspective. being able to express time of an action is far more important than having to learn substantives and adjectives at first.

When you dont know how to say for example HOUSE in english , you might use verbs to describe that substantive "THE PLACE I LIVE AND SLEEP"

But when you dont know a verb or the time of the verb , knowing adjectives doesnt help you one bit.

One might argue that you can mime the verbs , but we are here to learn how to actually speak and write.

As for conditional verbs , I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT IS NOT NECESSARY TO LEARN IT at first , as it can be easily replaced by one work and the verb.

For example in italian : FORSE , IO VOGLIO , instead of IO VORREI

This is specially useful for beginners trying to make themselves understood.

Bye !

2 years ago

12 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Mr_Eyl
Mr_Eyl
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Different strokes, different folks. Everyone learns differently- there's no right or wrong here.

As for Norwegian verbs, I wouldn't worry too much about it- they don't decline for person in any tense, so they're a breeze when you do get to them. :)

Duo is desogned to teach you the structure of a language rather than giving you an ability to communicate from day one. Also, it was never meant to be a sole learning tool- it's highly recommended that you supplement your studies elsewhere, and this will also enable you to focus on what interests you.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Andrealphus
Andrealphus
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I do agree with what you are saying when it comes to speed of learning, but might I also add that in your scenario that you will immediately be given a chance for regular practice? I think that Duolingo's is a good format for making information stick while your strategy is a good one for speed learning so you can jump right into that immersive environment.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Klgregonis
Klgregonis
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I agree that verbs are important - simple present, past and future and Duo does teach them fairly quickly. However - imagine yourself in an emergency situation. You have a cellphone, and know the street names, but not the address. You need to describe where you are. Or, you just got robbed, and you need to describe the person who robbed you. Or, even, you are in a store and want to describe what you are looking for. Adjectives come in really handy at this point. And so do substantives. As a matter of fact, those are the easiest things to learn (and teach) because you have something you can point to.

And, please note, in your example, there is an article, a noun, an interrogative or preposition and a conjunction in addition to the verbs - so - substantives not required? At least one is.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazouave
lazouave
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I might be slightly off topic here, but your comment on learning io voglio instead of io vorrei makes me want to say that it's a matter of politeness. I don't know how Italians would react, but as a French native, I would think you're really rude if you asked for something saying je veux instead of je voudrais, the conditional form. Learning languages is not just learning words, it's also about learning different codes.

(And as a side note: how would you, English speakers, react to someone saying I want instead of I'd like?)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/El_Gusano
El_Gusano
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Wonderful explanation! As an English speaker I want sounds a bit more abrupt than I'd like. I understand that only using the vous form also makes a person seem too stiff? At least in Spanish I hear it matters (usted/vos-tu).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazouave
lazouave
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Just a bit more abrupt? Would you think it's rude or would it be okay?

I'd say so, yes, although it depends on the situation. Saying tu to a shop assistant won't make you look relaxed but plain rude, sometimes even condescending. Saying vous when you're a twenty-year-old in a bar, speaking to another twenty-year-old is a bit too formal. It's a matter of finding the right balance :)
In Spanish, I think it depends on the country. My experience in Spain has shown me that saying to a shop assistant is apparently fine, just like they say to you. But I don't think it applies for Latin America; I think they pay more attention to the difference between informal and formal you than in Spain.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ilmarien
Ilmarien
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I'm not sure that all Latin American countries do - I've heard that Argentina is pretty informal also, though I've never been there to say for sure. Of course it gets more complicated because the words change depending on where you are - I found out recently from a coworker from El Salvador that what is informal in Argentina (vos), is quite formal in El Salvador, so... whatever you do, you'll be wrong somewhere. =)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lisa4duolingo
lisa4duolingo
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Really like your example, but I don't know that I'd react all that differently to either one. Nevertheless, I'm a big believer in word choice and the impact it can have. While even native speakers can make mistakes from time to time, it is usually best to avoid inadvertently offending those whose language you are attempting to learn. However, I don't think Liviu (saoihgoljiyf) would disagree with what you've written. I think the point is that certain categories of words may be more important to learn than others in the beginning.

You both make good points, but Liviu's is not one I had heard before. Someone did once tell me about a strategy of language learning where conjugation wasn't focused on (just the learning of verbs in their infinitive form) because even if you didn't remember how to conjugate, you would be understood. Intriguing concept, but one that seems to make a whole lot of sense. What Liviu posted also piques my curiosity, though, and I might even try to implement that approach the next time I learn a new language. If nothing else, it would be an interesting experiment to conduct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazouave
lazouave
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Well, this method is probably good when you want to learn the basics of a language fast, for an impending trip for example. So we're on the same page here, I think :)
It's just that when you're planning to actually learn a language, not just for one trip but because you have a genuine interest in it, learning some things that may seem difficult at first but are actually useful (the politeness thing again) is not a loss of time in my opinion. But if you experiment this, feel free to talk about it in the forum! It might be interesting to have the opinion of someone who tried different methods and can compare them!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/no.name.42
no.name.42
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You might be right in terms of speaking as quickly as possible, but to be able to understand anything you have to know the adjectives and nouns.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tchachkii
tchachkii
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i think it depends on how you want to learn. for some people, learning the conditional may be useful, or they want to. personally, i wouldn't mind learning the conditional even if it is not the most vital of tenses, but that's just my opinion.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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Some people complain that Duo doesn't teach "useful" phrasebook-style phrases at the beginning such as "Hello, my name is ..., I come from ...".

Duo isn't mean to get you up to a minimum tourist level as quickly as possible; it's intended to teach you a language in the long run.

So if you just want to "get by", then taking shortcuts works.

But if you want to (eventually) be reasonably competent in the language, then I don't think it's a problem that it doesn't first teach you a small level which is complete in itself before going on to a higher level - it moves slowly straight towards that higher level.

2 years ago