"Mae'r pili-pala yn oren."

Translation:The butterfly is orange.

February 3, 2016

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/BruceF.

How would one say, "The butterfly is in the orange"?

May 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/gorrasta

Maybe, "Mae'r pili-pala yn yr oren"? (I really don't know)

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
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Cywir!

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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So I suppose Mae'r pili-pala yn oren would mean "The butterfly is in an orange", as well as "The butterfly IS orange"?

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gorrasta

Holi da...

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/gorrasta

+rmcode Diolch!

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Willowfae
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Why is the 'mae' there? In the notes it says that mae on its own is 'there is/are'. So took this the be 'there is the orange butterfly'

July 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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Yes, I wonder also. It seems that, literally, it is "There is the butterfly in orange." but we wouldn't say that in English.

September 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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I don't think the verbal particle yn is the same as the preposition yn that means "in"... they don't do the same mutations, for starters.

And it might be better to translate mae as simply "is" in this sort of sentence - "Is the butterfly PART orange" with an untranslatable verbal PARTicle.

September 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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Yes, that works much better. It is only that although we would not say that for a butterfly, we often say that something is available in orange, or black or white or red, etc. We could even say that someone is dressed in orange. So, that it is possible that there was a parallel there somewhere at one time. It is not the same as the preposition "in", meaning a physical location, either.

September 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AbunPang
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So if the subject is a noun instead of a pronoun, the yn isn't shortened to 'n? Or would "Mae'r pili-pala'n oren" also be correct?

July 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Acebushmaster42

pili-pala is such a funny word

January 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/MatthewSke1
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Which part of this sentence translates to "is"?

February 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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"mae".

"Is the butterfly [part] orange", where "[part]" is an untranslatable particle used here for grammatical reasons before a noun or adjective.

February 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/grey236
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Wait so what purpose does yn have here?

January 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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As I said, it's there for grammatical reasons, to link the predicate adjective "orange" to the copula "to be".

It's kind of like the "do" in English questions such as "Where do the children want to go?" -- it has no "meaning" as such and is there just for grammatical reasons: because English questions require that word in that situation.

So also Welsh yn is a grammatical word that is required in some situations, where a predicate adjective, noun, or verb is connected to the verb "to be".

You can't leave out the "do" (*"Where the children want to go?") from the question above, nor can you leave out the yn (*Mae'r pili-pala oren - which would be "The orange butterfly is").

Continuing from the last example, compare these:

  • Mae pilipalod yn oren. = Butterflies are orange.
  • Mae pilipalod oren. = There are orange butterflies.

Having the yn separates the oren from the pilipalod and makes it clear that it's a predicate adjective rather than an attributive adjective.

January 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/grey236
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Oh ok I see now! When acting as the linking 'whatever' (verb?) does yn not become 'n?

January 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
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As far as I know, it should indeed be 'n after a vowel, as in Mae'r pilipala'n oren, when it is used as the linking particle.

(But not, as far as I know, when yn means "in": Dw i'n canu "I sing" but Dw i yn Abertawe "I'm in Swansea".)

January 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/grey236
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For some reason I can't reply to your reply to my reply (lol :P), but that makes sense, it's just that in the sentence above it doesn't change to 'n.

January 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
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The reasons are:-

  1. When we added this word we didn't have an 'n available to use in the sentence.

  2. Sometimes you don't contract the yn for emphasis:-

Mae'r pili-pala'n oren = The butterfly is orange

Mae'r pili-pala yn oren = The butterfly IS orange

The English to Welsh translation accepts both as the best answers.

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/LJSulli
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In the hints it says mae = "there is"; how would you say, "there is an orange butterfly"?

July 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/AbunPang
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I (non-native speaker) would say: “Dyna pili-pala oren.” dyna means something like “there is, see there” (i.e. it calls the listener’s attention to something). I would only use mae as “there is” when you also name the place: “Mae pili-pala oren ar y blodyn hwn.” (There is an orange butterfly on this flower.”

To analyse the example sentence above: Mae [is] ’r [the] pili-pala [butterfly] yn [a grammatical particle] oren [orange]. The particle yn is used between the subject and the predicate of the sentence.* If you want you can memorise the pattern: mae x yn y = “x is y”.

* Or rather predicate minus theconjugated verb form (in this case mae) which appears at the beginning of the clause.

July 3, 2017
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