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https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8

Lack of mutations?

Lundgren8
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Hi, I’ve studied some Welsh before and practised mutations. I’ve noticed that the course often hasn’t got mutations where I would use them. I wonder if I could get a native speaker or a mod to comment on it.

  1. dau llew (two lions). - I’ve been taught that dau would mutate to dau lew
  2. dydd Llun (on Monday) - I thought that when used as an adverb of time you mutate: ddydd Llun (as in: I drank tea on Monday).
  3. y tylluan - since feminine, should it not be y dylluan? Same goes for the description to the skill with colours where it says tylluan brown in the examples instead of tylluan frown which I expected.

Often words are also introduced in their mutated form, for example dafarn and ddiod so you think that those are the basic forms instead of tafarn and diod.

It would be nice if someone could comment on this. Diolch yn fawr!

2 years ago

5 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
ibisc
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  1. Definitely 'dau lew'.

  2. 'Dydd Llun' - Monday. 'Ddydd Llun' - on Monday. 'Ar ddydd Llun' - on Mondays. Not everybody observes the distinctions all the time, especially in colloquial usage.

  3. Correct. ' Y dafarn' is correct because 'tafarn' is a feminine noun (although it is masculine and 'y tafarn' in parts of Glamorgan!). 'Y dylluan' is correct even if the owl is a male. A few nouns do change gender with dialect, a few with meaning, and a few others change seemingly on individual whim - ignore them for now.

And yes, it is rather confusing to be presented with mutated words out of context! However, if you use an online dictionary such as gweiadur.com, or the excellent iOS/Android app Ap Geiriaduron, these will spot the mutations and point you the right way. Similarly you should be able to look up, say, 'gweld', 'gwelais', 'gweliff', and so on and get gently pointed back to the root verb-noun 'gweld' (to see, seeing).

Mwynhewch yr iaith!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lundgren8
Lundgren8
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Thanks for the reply. These ones I know about, but I’m worried there might be words that are incorrectly mutated that I don’t know about. I hope the team will see to this during the beta. Thanks for the links as well. I also like geiriaduracademi.org but the problem is that you have to know it from beforehand in order to look it up. If I wouldn’t have known tylluan was feminine I would have have gone with it.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/avrichard
avrichard
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Flag them with the "report error" function. Anything I've reported so far has been corrected pretty quickly...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/nebynAmlwch

You are correct. Tylluan should be mutated after 'y' and likewise, the first adverbial phrase should be mutated (treiglad adferfol). And also, there should be a soft mutation after dau/dwy. These simple mistakes in the course are shocking.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MrGWallCymraeg
  1. Both "dau llew" and "dau lew" should be accepted - I'm sure it was me who revised that phrase after a different contributor wrote it. Grammatically speaking, "dau lew" is the only correct answer.
  2. When used as adverbial, 'dydd' should mutate to 'ddydd'. Again, I personally revised this after other contributors wrote the original sentence. I might have missed a few, so please keep flagging them up :)
  3. "y dylluan" will also be accepted.

The way the course is built is on individual words (mostly). When I joined the course around three months again, an option for "forms or a word" where available but this was not known or made clear to us; what they do is allow all possible forms of a word (for example, mutated) to be accepted and assumes that the user would know them. Unfortunately, the whole the course was written by the time this was discovered and a decision was made to release the course without this.

Hopefully this will be sorted and make the course even better in Tree 2.0 :D

Hope this makes sense!

2 years ago