https://www.duolingo.com/selkieskin

Welsh mutations and Yes/No

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I haven't got that far into the Welsh course so far (Level 6) but as far as I can see there's no module addressing Welsh mutations coming up ahead, and there are already several instances where knowing them would be useful and better grammar-wise.

Does anybody know if there are any plans to add modules on big parts of Welsh grammar like this and like the whole Yes/No thing - anyone who has learned Welsh before will know what I'm talking about - while it's still in beta? Does that usually happen? (I'm quite new to Duolingo.) It seems to me like quite a major feature (not to mention an interesting one!) has been missed off...

In the meantime, here's a nice explanation about what I mean when I say 'mutations'. It's what makes seeing a word somewhere and then trying to find it in a dictionary such a pain. The whole Yes/No thing is also explained in brief there - a list which takes up fully 7 and a bit pages of this document: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/pdf/welshgrammar_allrules.pdf

2/5/2016, 1:12:41 AM

4 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/rmcode
Mod
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Mutations are first mentioned in the unit 'May I' where there is an explanation and a table for the main, the soft' mutation. Rather than frighten users with grammer we've followed the approach of the Welsh for adults courses, which is to introduce mutations in the context of their use. Also we carefully designed the course to avoid the need for mutations in the first 17 lessons in order for learners to gain confidence in the language.

2/6/2016, 6:58:08 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/crush
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There's no unit titled "Mutations", but they do mention them throughout the course. I can't remember which levels exactly, but i do remember reading a notes section about soft mutations along with a chart. The other mutations have been mentioned, but i haven't seen them provide charts or specific explanations of them. But they are used (and giving me a lot of headaches!) :)

2/5/2016, 7:31:56 AM

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
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You will find lots of mutations tables on the web. There is a pdf file of them here, for example - http://www.learningobservatory.com/uploads/publications/1933.pdf And another table here - http://bencrowder.net/design/welsh-mutations/

If you use the on-line dictionary at gweiadur.com (register for free) it lets you look up words which have been mutated and get to the basic form of the word. So if you put in 'nghroen', 'chroen' or 'groen' you will get to 'croen'. Similarly, it lets you get to the basic verb-nouns from the conjugated short-form verbs - so it you look for 'cyrhaeddiff' '(he/she/the children) will arrive at...' it will point to you to 'cyrraedd' (arriving at/to arrive at)

The soft mutation in particular is used in very many situations. Best is probably just to pick them up as you go along. In a widely-used English-language Welsh grammar reference book, the examples of when to use the treiglad meddal run to about 30 pages - it is not something to try to mug up on in a few evenings!

2/5/2016, 1:08:21 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/avrichard
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I understand why you haven't included them, but I'd still kind of like a topic on mutations... The Irish tree has a few skills specifically on lenition and eclipsis, plus are adding a few more to their Tree 2.0 due to popular demand.

2/6/2016, 11:17:02 AM
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