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  5. "Nie ma tu żadnego z nich."

"Nie ma tu żadnego z nich."

Translation:None of them is here.

February 9, 2016

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Exonym

I would suggest that "Not one of them is here." and "None of them are here." to be two of the most accurate translations for this (as speaker of British English), but it seems that "None of them is here." is offered as the best translation. This, to me, sounds a little strange (as if the subject does not agree with the verb).

Just my own, personal opinion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redvibe7

Technically, "none of them is here" is correct English, because "none" is a contraction of "not one".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ten_Pies_I_Brew

"None of them are here" is perfectly correct, too. The pronoun "none" is sometimes a plural pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/srat115

As an American English speaker, I feel like "None of them are here" is more correct (in casual speech at least), just because the "them" is plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arminia11_web_de

But "not one ... is" We just speak ungrammatically and find it not unusual to the ear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ten_Pies_I_Brew

But "none" isn't an abbreviation of "not one", it's its own separate word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BryanPickle

"them" is the object of the preposition "of." The verb agrees to the singular subject "none." The trick I learned regarding prepositions and verbs when learning subject-verb agreement is to completely remove the preposition/object of preposition and see if the subject-verb relationship still makes sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gabriel_Barahona

I understand this. I understand "Not one... is" is correct; however, if I were to use "none" instead of "not one", then "none... are" sounds correct while "none... is" sounds wrong (AmE speaker here)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kire1120

This is wrong in this instance. Them implies that the "none" refers to discrete individuals and not something that is uncountable. You could say "none is here" if referring to something uncountable like flour for example but not when they are countable and individual as "them" implies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danny62101

As a native British English speaker, "None of them is here" is wrong because just before, 'is' you are saying 'them' which makes the 'none' plural, like 'none of the 3 people are here'.

For 'is' to be correct, 'them' would have to change to 'it', 'None of it is here', for example, 'None of the (one, single...) cake is here'.

Many English speakers say 'is' when they should say 'are'.

'None' can refer to singular or plural, the use of 'them' instead of 'it' made it plural, which means that, 'are' is the only correct word to use in this sentence if 'them' remains unchanged.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexLivins

Does this also apply to the non-negated? One of them ARE here? Or do "the rules" change based on the presence/absence of a negation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ten_Pies_I_Brew

"One" is always singular, including in the phrase "not one". "None" is sometimes used as singular and sometimes as plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marcuslawsk

'None of them is here'; extremely unatural wording, really hurts the native ears. Grammatical correctness or not 'are' should really be the favoured phrasing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jamie301420

The phrasing of this really threw me off, although perhaps correct, "none of them are here" sounds more natural


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

It's accepted.

The forms of "żaden" pose a huge difficulty in translating into English as apparently Polish and English work very differently here...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sirwootalot

"Don't have here none of them" is the literal translation, but would be a perfectly acceptable sentence in some dialects of the american south. Definitely not anywhere else, but it's food for thought...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark958555

How about ”Not a one of them is here”?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/starsky92

"None of them are here", surely. "None of them is here" is not grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ten_Pies_I_Brew

In actual usage, the word "none" seems to be used both ways. When "none" has a singular referent, it's always treated as singular; when "none" has a plural referent, it's usually treated as plural but sometimes as singular. I found this page with more information: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/1425/none-as-plural-indefinite-pronoun


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

"none ... is" is more grammatically correct because none derives from "not one". That being said, it's generally acceptable to use it with the "not any" meaning as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Euhan1

Strictly speaking none is singular. There is no particular logic explanation for this, it's just a rule of English grammar. Many native speakers also make mistakes with this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ten_Pies_I_Brew

Okay, I have a question. For goodness' sake, why do you think that "none of them are here" is a mistake? What makes you think that "none" cannot be a plural pronoun sometimes?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vengir

Note the "of them". There isn't even a one person out of specific group.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirezatav

I'm guessing "żadnego z nich" is in the accusative because of "ma"... so if I wanted to say something like "none of them like apples", would "żaden z nich nie lubi jabłek" be correct? (given the preferred English translation, I'm assuming the Polish sentence would take the singular?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Starting from the end: your sentence about apples is perfectly correct.

Now, to the Accusative thing... no, it's Genitive. "mieć" (to have) takes Accusative, true. But it's negated here, and negated Accusative = Genitive (don't forget that it's the only case that changes when negated).

Also, as the word "żaden" by definition is a negation, and negated Accusative = Genitive... it's very very rare to use "żaden" in Accusative. I guess it only can happen when Accusative is needed by a preposition, not verb (it doesn't change then). So, for example "Nie czekam na żaden stół!" (I am not waiting for any table!).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mokotower

"Here is none of them" does not work in English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrI0sha

Sounds unnatural. "There is none of them here" is what you want. One can, however, imagine a situation in which your phrase would be appropriate. Say, you are looking for 3 friends of yours, and you are expecting to find one of them behind the curtain. You are about to draw the curtain back, and begin announcing "Here is... ". You draw the curtain, and there is nobody there. So then, you could finish by saying "...none of them!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlisonSinc

It has just rejected my 'there is not any one of them here' which as a UK speaker I thought was simply a more emphatic way of putting 'none of them is here'. Have I misunderstood something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Why not, added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Popo-lsku

What is the different between "Nie ma tu żadnego z nich." and "Nie ma tu żadnej z nich." Is it the gender? "żadnego" for a group a male people and "żadnej" for a group of female people and a mixed group???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vengir

You almost got it right! But for mixed groups we would use the male form, but yes, „żadnego” is for males, and „żadnej” is for females”.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredFukada

If we start with Żadnego z nich, how would the phrase end?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vengir

„Żadnego z nich tu nie ma”. I'm not sure if it's a good word order in all situation, but it's technically grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FredFukada

dziękuję bardzo, Vengir!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelPitz

What case is used after "z" in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

It is genitive plural. And because it's third person and comes after a preposition, the usual genitive plural form "ich" becomes "nich".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DevonShaddick

Hmmm, this one was really ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ me up and I think I've figured out why. In the english sentence "none of them" is the subject, while in the polish translation the subject isn't specified and if I'm understanding correctly (and god knows I might not be), could be more literally (if awkwardly) translated as "It does not have (or there is not) any of them here". If that's the case, might it be a good idea to change the english translation (or at least the first option if you already accept it) to "There is none of them here" or something like that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BenYoung84

That's basically right. But they shouldn't change the English translation because that's not how we would express it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvesAB

Is this some form of idiomatic expression? I don't really understand the need of the preposition "z" as "nie ma ich tutaj/tu" would be enough to say that "they are not here". So I am guessing somehow the addition of żaden makes it necessary to add the preposition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrI0sha

"żadnego z nich" is literally "none of them," word for word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheShinigamiRyuk

None of them is here is correct. We can take out the prepositional phrase (of them) to leave None is here. None, someone, anyone, each, neither, and so on will always be singular.

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