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"This is the best wine that was produced last year."

Translation:Bu geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap.

February 10, 2016

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordHogel

what form is üretilen?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk
  • üretmek: to produce
  • üretilmek: (passive) to be produced
  • üretilen: the one which was produced

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrK815826

üretilenmek: @ Selcen_Ozturk, if you keep this up, we will end up with one of those 60-letter agglutinated words!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BabaJim

Can someone please explain the Turkish word order here? This looks way off to me... for example "Bu" not followed by "en iyi sarap" makes no sense... also why is the verb "uretilen" not at the end of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

Really late reply but here goes:

Firstly, reading the tips and notes for every lesson is a great idea that would explain this sentence, although not the tips and notes for the lesson this sentence is a part of. Tips and notes can only be read on the website, and not on the app, unfortunately.

The basic sentence without adjectives is "bu, şarap", "this is the wine". Adding in "en iyi" => "bu, en iyi şarap" makes "this is the best wine".

In a previous lesson (Relative Pronouns) we learned about the suffix "-(y)An", which is this object participle. This is the suffix attached to "üretilmek" you're seeing in this sentence. In this context it acts as a relative clause meaning "which was produced." So, "üretilen şarap" means "the wine which was produced".

Now, knowing this, "geçen yıl" (which means "last year"), is a part of the phrase containing "üretilen", "geçen yıl üretilen" ör "which was produced last year. "Relative clauses" in Turkish follow the same word order as full sentences, so the time information comes before the verb.

So, the phrase "geçen yıl üretilen" is acting as an adjective modify "şarap", and "en iyi" is an adjective modifying "şarap".

I hope I adequately broke down this sentence so future learners can come to grips with it.

tips and notes for the object participle lesson: https://www.duolingo.com/skill/tr/-en-(Relative-Pronouns)/tips-and-notes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

That's very nice and quite thorough.

Note also that the principle of vowel harmony is needed to recognize üretilen. And see Selcen Ozturk's comment for more analysis of that word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angel276537

In french lessons tips and notes are on the app ,and are really helpfull .why not in turkish lessons which would be helpfull too ,as you commented .having tips and notes in this app will solve many question that we are facing .i hope Duo will do something about it befor the course is finished but the questions are still remained .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

Would be 'son yılda' also correct? Otherwise why not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

Good question. My guess would be that it is not correct.

My first two tries were

Bu en iyi son yılda üretilen şarap

Bu son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap

Neither is accepted and I suppose son should mean the final year rather than the past year.

It would be good to hear from a native speaker.

Apart from that,

Bu en iyi gecen yıl üretilen şarap

is not accepted either. It's not clear to me what determines the proper word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

It's probable that

Bu en iyi geçen yıl üretilen şarap

should be accepted, but there is ambiguity in what "en iyi" is referring to in the above sentence. It could be referring to "yıl" and mean "the best year". It could be referring to "üretilen" and mean "that was produced in the best manner". In the spoken sentence, stress and intonation would probably be used to differentiate the clauses.

Regardless, as far as I'm aware there are no current course contributors for the Turkish From English course, so there are many, many valid translations of sentences that are not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cachaji

You are right and the only option left is to report the missing alternatives each time you come across them. Maybe some day, we or others will see the results of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

I'm glad that somebody else has taken this up this cause too. I'm always reporting missing translations just for the hell of it. I imagine if any contributors do return to the Turkish course they won't want to sort through a backlog of who-knows-how-many reports, but I keep trying anyway.

Keep up the good fight ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cachaji

Let's do that.
I want to stress though that, as far as I am concerned, it is a fight for improvement and not against anybody. Duolingo is a collaborative work. Because it is free, the moderators are volunteers and, if they fail sometimes, well... it is not that easy to be perfectly bilingual. Even with a high level of education in languages starting with your own, you can be wrong at times.
So it's everybody's task to get involved in a positive way. And if there are heated comments sometimes, it is just because it is a place where there are so many people passionate about language. Myself included.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

Thank you for your comment!
I absolutely agree with your arguments concerning 'geçen yıl' and 'son yılda'.
Concerning the word order of your last example my guess is 'en iyi' and 'şarap' should not be separated. Perhaps it is even a bit like in English: (this is) 'the best wine' ...
(not completely sure)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Marie_goforit

"This is the best wine that was produced last year." Translation: Bu geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap.

Bu geçen senenin üretilen en iyi şarap. - Correct.

Genitive case "of" last years.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vijaya242162

Why is “Gecen yil uretilen en iyi sarap bu” wrong? (Sorry my keyboard doesn’t have special characters. But they were correctly written in my answer).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Vijaya242162

Hello.

"This is the best wine that was produced last year." Translation: Bu geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap.

Why is “Gecen yil uretilen en iyi sarap bu” wrong? (Sorry my keyboard doesn’t have special characters. But they were correctly written in my answer).

“Gecen yil uretilen en iyi sarap bu” - Last year produced the best wine this.

This is OK only as spoken Turkish & not acceptable as written Turkish. "Last year" should be "of" last years - "yılın." Genitive case suffix - "-ın."

Gecen yılın üretilen en iyi şarap bu. - Last years produced, the best wine this.

You do have a sense of humour & we would say this - "Last years produced, the best wine this" after drinking a few bottles of it.

Teşekkür ederim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johannes525661

Why is "son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap bu" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Johannes525661

Hello

"This is the best wine that was produced last year." Translation: Bu geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap.

Why is "son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap bu" wrong?

"son yılda" means "at last year" not the "last years." The "bu" will be at the beginning of the sentence.

Bu en iyi son yılda üretilen şarap

Bu son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap

Bu en iyi gecen yıl üretilen şarap

None of the 3 answers above is accepted.

Bu geçen senenin üretilen en iyi şarap. - Correct.

Genitive case "of" last years.

Thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johannes525661

Thank you very much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Johannes525661

Rica ederim! - You're welcome!

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