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"This is the best wine that was produced last year."

Translation:Bu geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap.

February 10, 2016

27 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LordHogel

what form is üretilen?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk
  • üretmek: to produce
  • üretilmek: (passive) to be produced
  • üretilen: the one which was produced

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrK815826

üretilenmek: @ Selcen_Ozturk, if you keep this up, we will end up with one of those 60-letter agglutinated words!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BabaJim

Can someone please explain the Turkish word order here? This looks way off to me... for example "Bu" not followed by "en iyi sarap" makes no sense... also why is the verb "uretilen" not at the end of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

Really late reply but here goes:

Firstly, reading the tips and notes for every lesson is a great idea that would explain this sentence, although not the tips and notes for the lesson this sentence is a part of. Tips and notes can only be read on the website, and not on the app, unfortunately.

The basic sentence without adjectives is "bu, şarap", "this is the wine". Adding in "en iyi" => "bu, en iyi şarap" makes "this is the best wine".

In a previous lesson (Relative Pronouns) we learned about the suffix "-(y)An", which is this object participle. This is the suffix attached to "üretilmek" you're seeing in this sentence. In this context it acts as a relative clause meaning "which was produced." So, "üretilen şarap" means "the wine which was produced".

Now, knowing this, "geçen yıl" (which means "last year"), is a part of the phrase containing "üretilen", "geçen yıl üretilen" ör "which was produced last year. "Relative clauses" in Turkish follow the same word order as full sentences, so the time information comes before the verb.

So, the phrase "geçen yıl üretilen" is acting as an adjective modify "şarap", and "en iyi" is an adjective modifying "şarap".

I hope I adequately broke down this sentence so future learners can come to grips with it.

tips and notes for the object participle lesson: https://www.duolingo.com/skill/tr/-en-(Relative-Pronouns)/tips-and-notes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angel276537

In french lessons tips and notes are on the app ,and are really helpfull .why not in turkish lessons which would be helpfull too ,as you commented .having tips and notes in this app will solve many question that we are facing .i hope Duo will do something about it befor the course is finished but the questions are still remained .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tahani90259

You are right even there is story it helps to improve the language a lot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

That's very nice and quite thorough.

Note also that the principle of vowel harmony is needed to recognize üretilen. And see Selcen Ozturk's comment for more analysis of that word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

Would be 'son yılda' also correct? Otherwise why not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryLCh

Good question. My guess would be that it is not correct.

My first two tries were

Bu en iyi son yılda üretilen şarap

Bu son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap

Neither is accepted and I suppose son should mean the final year rather than the past year.

It would be good to hear from a native speaker.

Apart from that,

Bu en iyi gecen yıl üretilen şarap

is not accepted either. It's not clear to me what determines the proper word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

It's probable that

Bu en iyi geçen yıl üretilen şarap

should be accepted, but there is ambiguity in what "en iyi" is referring to in the above sentence. It could be referring to "yıl" and mean "the best year". It could be referring to "üretilen" and mean "that was produced in the best manner". In the spoken sentence, stress and intonation would probably be used to differentiate the clauses.

Regardless, as far as I'm aware there are no current course contributors for the Turkish From English course, so there are many, many valid translations of sentences that are not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cachaji

You are right and the only option left is to report the missing alternatives each time you come across them. Maybe some day, we or others will see the results of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

I'm glad that somebody else has taken this up this cause too. I'm always reporting missing translations just for the hell of it. I imagine if any contributors do return to the Turkish course they won't want to sort through a backlog of who-knows-how-many reports, but I keep trying anyway.

Keep up the good fight ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cachaji

Let's do that.
I want to stress though that, as far as I am concerned, it is a fight for improvement and not against anybody. Duolingo is a collaborative work. Because it is free, the moderators are volunteers and, if they fail sometimes, well... it is not that easy to be perfectly bilingual. Even with a high level of education in languages starting with your own, you can be wrong at times.
So it's everybody's task to get involved in a positive way. And if there are heated comments sometimes, it is just because it is a place where there are so many people passionate about language. Myself included.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marie_goforit

Thank you for your comment!
I absolutely agree with your arguments concerning 'geçen yıl' and 'son yılda'.
Concerning the word order of your last example my guess is 'en iyi' and 'şarap' should not be separated. Perhaps it is even a bit like in English: (this is) 'the best wine' ...
(not completely sure)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vijaya242162

Why is “Gecen yil uretilen en iyi sarap bu” wrong? (Sorry my keyboard doesn’t have special characters. But they were correctly written in my answer).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johannes111984

Why is "son yılda üretilen en iyi şarap bu" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mita37

What's wrong with ending with "bu"? It is allowed in other lessons.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bartpieter

why not the -dik construction here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

"-dik" would require someone that had done the producing, like "this is the best wine that THEY produced last year" (Bu onların geçen yıl ürettiği en iyi şarap). This is a combination of the passive suffix ("-il" in this case) and the subject relative clause suffix ("-en"). "Üretmek" means "to produce". Adding the "-en" suffix to this verb ("üreten") would mean "who produced/produces" (for example: "şarap üreten adam" -- "the man who produced wine"). The passive suffix makes object of the unmodified verb the subject of the passive verb (e.g. "üretilmek" means "to BE produced"). Then adding the "-en" suffix makes it mean "which were produced" ("üretilen").

A more specific question would help me direct my answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mahetab13

gecen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap bu wrong????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markaragnossith

If you typed exactly "geçen yıl üretilen en iyi şarap bu" (you missed the ç in your comment) and it was marked wrong you can go ahead and report it next time; it should be correct and accepted.

If you mistyped "geçen" as "gecen", that could be enough to make duolingo mark it as incorrect, especially since "gecen" is a valid work in Turkish.

Here at the end of the course the sentences get more complicated, but there are fewer accepted answers. The course moderators have finite time and cannot add every possible accepted translation for every sentence. The best thing you can do is use the "Report" button and check "my answer should have been accepted" if you believe your translation to be accurate.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lk512

Can someone clarify when you're supposed to write yıl and when yılda?

I'm pretty sure in a previous lesson "in the last 10 years" was translated as "son on yılda".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grace81617

i think yilda tells you it's "in the last year" yil it's just year. In English the sentence would mean exactly the same and it would be correct. -....produced in the last year, -....produced last year.

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