"The butterfly and the shark"

Translation: Y pili-pala a'r siarc

[jxetkubo]

Is iâr fach yr haf or pili-pala more common?

[EllisVaughan]

It depends on where you are in Wales. I'm from the north and used pili-pala

[mizinamo]

Is yr iâr fach yr haf possible with two definite articles?

I would have thought that iâr fach yr haf is already definite since it has yr before the last word of the compound... and that if you wanted "a butterfly", it would have to be something like iâr fach o'r haf.

(Or at least that's how I think it works in Cornish grammar - I assume it is similar in Welsh.)

[ibisc]

You are right about the general case such as 'the roof of the house' translating as to'r tŷ - no 'of' and no initial 'the' in the Welsh. With iâr fach yr haf it is being treated more as a compound noun, perhaps.

Pili-pala seems to be pretty universal across Wales now, with iâr fach yr haf, glöyn byw and a few other local terms being used less and less.

[GarethBurk]

South and mid Wales is iar face yr haf, north is pili pala

[GarethCool1]

So is it pili-pala or pili pala?