"A boy and a girl."

Translation:Bachgen a merch.

February 15, 2016

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

How distinct is the pronunciation of hogyn and hogan in Welsh, in practice? Can you clearly tell them apart?

February 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan

Yes they are both very clear when spoken.

February 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

Thank you!

February 15, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jhatcher88

It is clear but I never learnt this version at school (I'm from South Wales) and in West Wales they seem to stick to bachgen and merch. EllisVaughan do you know is hogyn/hogan is more north Welsh?

February 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan

I had to consult a book for this (The Welsh Language: A History by Janet Davies(really recommend it) where there is a map showing where each word for girl is used. It seems as though hogan is used throughout the north with some usage creeping into the more southerly areas around Aberystwyth.(The book doesn't have a map for hogyn but I assume it is pretty similar.

February 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/PaCa826187

I hear both pairs in Anglesey but I feel like merch is used for older girls and would be a bit more like 'lass' but that's just a feeling.

February 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/AlisonSmit361014

That's how I was taught it when I lived on Anglesey

February 23, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/CacenCwningen

Same -- bachgen and merch for me.

October 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/CacenCwningen

Hogyn=Hoh-GUN

Hogan=Hoh-GAHN

Most fluent Welsh people would probably put a lot of enthusiasm on the "ah" sound in "hogan", from my experiences, but people seem to say "merch" or "menyw" etc. Where I live, in South Wales.

October 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/dantan94

Were we taught crwt?

June 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/MargaretWe2

I wrote "... a Ferch" instead of "...a Merch" thinking that I should be using the treiglad meddal after "a" - am I wrong or should I just stick to the original form this early in the lessons?

March 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo

I believe you are wrong.

King writes in his grammar that

In the literary language, a is followed by [Aspirate Mutation]: bara a chaws bread and cheese, halen a phupur salt and pepper, mam a thad mother and father. This usage is generally disregarded in the spoken language (see ยง9).

So a merch would be correct -- either aspirate mutation (which doesn't usually affect /m/) or no mutation. (Or, perhaps, a mherch; I have read that colloquially, m sometimes turns to mh under aspirate mutation; King calls this "common spoken practice of long standing which, however, is not presently accepted as part of the standard written language".)

March 10, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/MargaretWe2

Thanks very much, Mizinamo! That was helpful. I'm glad I asked. :-)

March 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Catherine-Brown

I did that too because I thought a singular feminine noun mutated softly - is that wrong then? I do remember the aspirated mutation after a but thought that only applied to T C and P?

March 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan

Yes aspirate mutation only affects T, C and P. Feminine singular nouns mutate softly after Y, and 'r or after un.

March 22, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/SiblingCreature

The app tends to present this sentence in a choose the words exercise and only offers me hogyn for boy and merch for girl. Would these words ever normally be used together?

April 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EllisVaughan

Merch and Hogan are two of the more recoginsed words for girl so there would be no loss in understanding. That said I personally would usually pair up hogyn and hogan, and bachgen a merch. If in doubt in spoken Welsh you can always just say hogs for a group of boy and girls.(at least in the north where I live)

April 16, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/MargaretWe2

Good question! I wondered about that, too. Does anyone have an answer to this?

April 16, 2016
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