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  5. "No, not until you open it."

"No, not until you open it."

Translation:No, non finché non lo apri.

January 17, 2013

108 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilWillis

This phrase is too advanced for the current level. It uses infrequently used words (like apri) and pronouns (like it).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

It's hard, - this is my way to try to decipher it:

finché = fino+a+che = as long as
finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
not (as-long-as) = until

No - non - (finché non) - lo - apri. =
No - not - (until) - it - you open. ~

No not until you open it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/German4me22

Aprire is a regular verb meaning to open or to open up. Apri is the second person singular meaning 'you open'. Finché by itself means 'as long as' or 'while'. 'Finche non' means 'until' It is a false negative! The true negative is 'Non finché non' meaning 'not until' Lo is a direct object pronoun meaning either 'it' or 'him'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awpoppo

I agree, but I don't mind. It's one heart and I've only seen it once. Though we can not possibly get it yet I liked seeing this sentence as kind of a preview so it's not such a shock when we get there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

You're right. For some reason it was showing up in Conjunctions, well before direct object pronouns (like "lo") were introduced. This should be resolved now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Puzzle36714

They have used apri a number of times before this, usually opening doors, windows, and i think jars too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

aprire = to open

io . . . . . apro
tu . . . . . apri
lui/lei . . . apre
noi . . . . apriamo
voi . . . . aprite
loro . . . aprono


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TiagoMoita_PT

Shouldn't it be "No, non finché l'apri"? And how can "No, non finché non lo apri" be also correct, according to Duolingo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giuliap

In general, "finché non = until", and "finché = while". You can find a discussion on this topic in the WordReference forum here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=47122highlight=finch%E9


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TiagoMoita_PT

Thanks. It's clearer in my head, but still a bit of a brain-twister, especially the "unless not" case, which apparently forces the speaker to come up with a different wording from the translation...

And I just ran into this other Duolingo sentence "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane.", with no "non" after finché. Now I'm confused again.

(Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, and why not "l'apri", instead of "lo apri" by the way?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giuliap

I am no grammar expert, but I think it is correct to say "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" or "Io aspetto finché cerchi (look for) il cane". However in this specific case I would still understand the meaning because "finché trovi" = "while you find" which in Italian means while you are looking for it. But again, I am no expert and this is a little complicated, so I hope I am not saying anything wrong. I have never thought about it before :) As far as "l'apri" or "lo apri".. most people from where I am originally from (Northern Italy) would say and write "lo apri", while "l'apri" is correct but somewhat old-fashioned. Perhaps in Southern Italy it is still common, unfortunately I don't know. If you check here (http://grammatica-italiana.dossier.net/grammatica-italiana-02.htm) under "elisione" they say that both work. (sorry it's in Italian, I hope it's not too hard to understand).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TiagoMoita_PT

It's fine, I think I can manage. Grazie mille!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terence544359

Can you say whether "No, non fino a tu lo apri" is a correct translation " DL marked it wrong but I can not see the error if there is one ?

grazie mille


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rsc55

I wrote "l'apri" and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JelenaKO

Why is LO in front of APRI?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D-Shift

Direct objects ("lo" or "it" in this case) come before conjugated verbs, but after infinitives. Per esempio: Lo apri = You open it. Puoi aprirlo = You can open it. If you were to say "Aprilo", you would be using the imperative form/giving an informal command, i.e. "Open it."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ptoro

Too bad pronouns haven't been taught yet. Duolingo oversight.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KSmitch

Man... the difficulty really shot up there since conjunctions part 1.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prucsok

"No, non finché tu non lo apri." - why is not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexxe333

i wait, while you open it. NOT i wait, while you don't open it. Two "non"s are what the confusion is about. double check my correction. if two "non"s are okay, I'd like to know why.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/briannakayte

Finche non is one phrase that should not be broken up. If you hover over the words, it defines finche as "as long as". So the sentence becomes, literally, "No, not as long as you don't open it".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elena18

I tried something similar (and also lost a heart :( " "No, finche non tu lo apri"? Could either of these work???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marziotta

No, sorry, wrong. "Non lo apri" must all stay together, Elena. Or you can write "No, non finché tu lo apri"

Prucsok, I think your option should be accepted.

"Finché tu lo apri" and "finché tu non lo apri" mean the same thing in Italian. "Finché tu non lo apri" is more common BUT I think that we are slowly getting the habit of English language not to use the negation there...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giuliap

Doesn't "finché lo apri" mean "While you are still opening it", whereas "finché non lo apri" is "until you open it"? I am italian too, and that's how I would interpret the two sentences. To me, they don't mean the same thing. (Tipo: "Aspetto finche' lo apri", ad esempio sto aspettando che tu abbia finito di aprire qualcosa, azione che stai compiendo ora. Invece "aspetto finche' non lo apri" vuol dire che sto aspettando che tu vada ad aprire qualcosa, azione che non hai ancora iniziato).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uomo_Siciliano

Whats the difference (if any) between "mentre" and "finché" because alot of people say finché also mean "while" like mentre. I already know that "finché non" means until but between those two worda is there a difference or would they be interchangable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

mentre = while

finché (fino+a+che) = as long as

finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
not (as-long-as) = until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LA_danimo

Thank you for your feedback!! I had the same problem as Prucsok so I reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

As "apri" = "you open" there is no need for an extra "tu".

No = No
non = not
finché (fino+a+che) non ~ not (as-long-as) = until
lo = it / him
apri = you open

No, not, until, it, you open =

No not until you open it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/frrogggy

Why can I not have 'tu' in my answer? But then I'm not sure where the pronoun should go as we've had no detail on that yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D-Shift

You should be able to have «tu» in there if you write it as such: «No, non finché (tu) non lo apri.» The subject precedes all of the other verb modifiers, such as pronouns, negatives, and objects, and even adverbs (which follow the verb). The order is as follows: (subject, i.e. io, tu, noi, etc.) (negative, i.e. «non»), (reflexive pronouns/indirect objects, i.e. si, gli, le, etc.) (direct objects, i.e. ti, lo, ne, li, etc.) and (verb, i.e. apri, mangio, dà, etc.).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarinhumphrey

I think my head just exploded...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SergiDuaig

Shouldn't "No,non fino tu l'apri" be also correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lunaexoriens

I've got the same question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/valyo8

I guess this sentence with its multiple negations was a nightmare for the native English speakers...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jyk_amacondr

Google search 05/05/2013 "No non finché non lo" 2 result [this topic thread]. "No, finché non lo" 169'000 results The answer "No, non finche' non lo X" has never been used in the history of the internet until now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ericalridley

Agree I tripped on this one, too. But followed your lead and googled "non finche non" and actually came up with 332,000 hits. Here's a "No, non finche non": https://twitter.com/itsKin_/status/277772039660638208


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/olibelula

I was marked down for using 'la apri' instead of 'lo apri', with the advice 'pay attention to the gender'. But this is wrong, because the form 'IT' doesn't have a gender, could be either masc or fem.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/djparke2

In general, I try to remember that when thinking about the connections of two words, Italians usually don't repeat vowels. For example, if you say "and I", in Italian as " e io " , the more correct written form is to put a D after the E, so it would be " ed io " . If saying " the lava of Etna " (Mount Etna is a volcano in Sicily), it is more correct to say " la lava d'Etna " or " la lava dell'Etna " than to say " la lava della Etna " , even though Etna technically ends in an A. Again with saying " the watch " or " the watches " , being " l'orologio " and " gli orologi " , respectively.

In your case, " la apri " is repeating a vowel, so I would think there is an error. It would be better to say " l'apri " or " lo apri " , since when you have a noun that starts with the letter A, the article is " l' ", but when talking about pronouns, and the noun isn't specifically mentioned, you may use " l' " or " lo " . I do believe that each is masculine or feminine, but once again, it doesn't matter when the noun is obscure.

I'm sorry if this made you more confused, but I hope this helped!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beautifull17

I wrote no,non finche non tu l'apri and it says wrong for adding tu i don't understand why


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alves_Tiago

My brain hurts...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItalianGirl1969

I don't think new words like the pronoun "lo" should be a problem here. It may be a pronoun we haven't been formally introduced to but you can tap the word it and get the Italian word. Even if you miss it the first time you see it the next time it pops up you will remember and learn. A word introduced out of sequence stands out better and is learned and remembered faster because it's alone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sharinglanguage

Fino would be okay, right? Or must we use Finche in negative sentences?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/atlgator

Wheres the "l'" from?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/safibta

Can someone remind me which lesson contains the first mention of 'lo'? I can't recall it. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lordofrivendell

I've never had the word finiché


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Don.Mc

I have to say I think this phrase has done more harm then good in learning Italian!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lucidlinguist

Can somebody explain why the second "non" is necessary before "lo apri"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

non finché = non (fino+a+che) = not as long as

finché non = as-long-as not ~
not as-long-as = until

non finché non = not until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pinky738990

Sounds to my American brain like "not until you don't open it." This gets really mind bending.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eespinosa64

Why in "non" written twice in the answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

non finché = non (fino+a+che) = not as long as

finché non = as-long-as not ~ not as-long-as = until

non finché non = not until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cen3petal

used aprilo, failed


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giuliap

Aprilo (i.e., with the "lo" after the verb) is used in the imperative form only. In all other cases (that I can think of right now), "lo, la, le" always precede the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

yes, but you can also put them after the verb when you use the whole verb. Like in: "vuoi aprire la porta?" becomes: "vuoi aprirla?" (Will you open the door - will you open it)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D-Shift

That's only when the verb is in the infinitive form, however. To use the direct object after a conjugated verb is to put it into the (informal) imperative form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

yes, you are right. I ment the infinitive by saying the whole verb. (bad English,sorry)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/charm22

Is "No, non finché lo apri ". also correct? Or is the other "non" necessary like in the original sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gciambrone

What about attaching the object pronoun (or is it an indirect object pronoun?) to the end of the infinitive of the verb, "aprerlo". Duolingo told me this was wrong when I did it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D-Shift
  1. It would be «aprirlo», with an "i" and not an "e".
  2. This is acceptable only after a conjugated verb beforehand, i.e. «Voglio aprirlo,» "I want to open it." If you just use an infinitive and no conjugated verb—i.e. «No, non finché non aprirlo,»—this would be akin to saying "No, not until to open it," which has no subject and makes no sense.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaphuAmorim

I know is not taught here, but is "fino a quando" also ok to mean "until"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/D-Shift

"Fino a" is a good form for "until", but "Fino a quando" is basically saying "Until when". To my knowledge, it doesn't make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

No, non fino a quando lo apri. = No, not until when you open it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shjasani

Shouldn't this be "No, non finche non tu apri"? I don't understand "lo apri" is used. Can someone explain?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wiplala

you need the "lo" because it says you open IT. so the sentence will be:"No, non finche non (tu) lo apri.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lschwaegle

Then, how would you say, "No, not until you don't open it"? For example, someone is opening a window and the other person doesn't want to go into the room until the window is closed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

No, non fino a quando non l'apri.

There is a slight change in this as it means "No, not until when you don't open it", - and as it is la finestra lo changes to l'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItalianFrog

I dont get why it uses 3 times no in the italian while in english only 2 no's are given. No, non finche (non) lo apri... For me it sounds more like "No, not until you (don't) open it", which gives a totally other context. As example take a box, I hold it in my hand and ask someone if I can see the ring inside and get "No, not until you open it (No, non finché tu lo apri)" as reply, this makes sense, because if I open the box I can see the ring.

Explain please why I have to add the 3rd negation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/divaluisa

Here's another example of triple negatives: No, not until you don't open it. This is a hard one to get my head around.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ispirac

No non finché lo aprite.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fiorenza.m2

Fino a che, ha lo stesso significato di "finché"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gill.newso

Also not specified whether tu or voi so therefore both forms SHOULD be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

*tu' -> No, non finché non lo apri.

voi -> No, non finché non lo aprite.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erinewalpole

Why is it "non finche non"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

finché = fino+a+che = as-long-as
non finché = not as-long-as

finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
not (as-long-as) = until

non finché non = not until


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeff_Alfa

I now understand finche requiring a "non" in context, but don't know why a double negative is correct and using no "non" is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/meb4444

I don't get why there are 2 non's in it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edruseru

Why is it two non? Makes no sense to me. It's like: no, not until not open it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/italianjdl

Why 2 non s? There is only 1 not!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/busedikici

Am i the only one who can't get what the point in this sentence is?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/faezeha

I always confuse in using " finche non" :(((( why non finche non ?!!!!!!! When we must use finche non and when fino a?!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddPhillips

So, I selected two choices, only one DL considers correct. The two I selected were:

  1. No, non finche non lo apri (which I and DL agreed was correct)
  2. No, non finche voi non l'aprite.

These seem to be syntactically the same, the only difference being that one uses tu and the other voi. Can someone explain why I got this wrong?

Thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddPhillips

OK, nvm. The second one I wrote (which Duolingo said I got wrong) said Non, non finche...

I understand why that is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

I still don't get it why it is wrong to say No, non finché non tu l'apri.

No (No,)
non (not)
finché non (until)
tu (you)
l'apri (it open) - surely lo apri is correct elided to l'apri


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

lo apri = you open it (it = il bar)
l'apri = you open it (it = la finestra)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bellunoman

Why is "non" in there twice? Makes no sense....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barbara9206

This is the first one to give me real trouble, it was difficult


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTalbo2

Two “non’s.” Is this an Italian double negative?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lcf02139

I wonder why "Non fino ad aprilo" is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SueGibb8

I didn't have a clue. My verbal response was, "No freakin' idea." - twice. Even the correct answer - given was not the same as the translation given at the top of this discussion page. Answer was .... l'apri. UP above is lo apri. Not sure what is right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paddington

The answer is wrong. ("non" repeated twice)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mariuskoc

I can't work out the construction of this sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EREyRU

Why is it "non finchè non lo apri"? Im not questioning the correctness or sense: i want to know what we're supposed to be learning from this and how we're expected to learn it with zero feedback. How are we supposed to know how to construct this sentence or apply the rule we (supposedly) learn to other sentences?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nstallaert2

Why do you need to put "non" before AND after "finche" ? To me "non finche" makes sense to say "not until" but to have "non lo apri" makes it seem like it says "you do not open it". So I feel like "no, not until you open it" should be "no, non finche lo apri".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GidiZisk

This sentence is more reasonable when I add a verb before the first "non": "non mangia finché non lo apri":

"non mangia" - don't eat

finché = as long as

non lo apri = You don't open it

"finché non lo apri" = as long as you don't open it, has the same logic as "until you open it"

so "non mangia finché non lo apri" = Don't eat until you open it, if you omit the verb, not (some untold action) until you open it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoahbleRob

I dont know why its not "No, non finché non lo apri"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

But that IS the correct translation given by Duolingo, isn't it? At least on my laptop it is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kay144809

wait is aprire in the subjunctive here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/granazorch

It's saying non until you don't open it. It's wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carmen437419

I was right. The first and second choice were identical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Puzzle36714

I just can't agree with this. Based on what people have said, I think "lo apri" would be more like "until IT'S opened", but the question is until YOU open it, so it should be "tu apri" or whatever l[x] term that means "you"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicki560916

I believe No, non finch+è lo apri is correct. The use of non twice does not make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SharonMazz6

are not # 2 and #3 the exact same sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Madeleine863330

Doesn't this mean No, not until you don't open it???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger
  • finché = fino+a+che = up+to+that = as-long-as
  • finché non = 'as-long-as' not = not 'as-long-as' = until

No, non 'finché non' lo apri. =
No, not . . . 'until' . . it you open. =
No, not until you open it.

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