"No, not until you open it."

Translation:No, non finché non lo apri.

January 17, 2013

99 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/PhilWillis

This phrase is too advanced for the current level. It uses infrequently used words (like apri) and pronouns (like it).

February 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Marninger

It's hard. Trying to understand and be helpful this is my way to try to decipher it:

No, non [finché non] [lo apri]. No, not [as long as not] [it you open]. - - - - or in other words - - - - No, not [until] [you open it]

September 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/awpoppo

I agree, but I don't mind. It's one heart and I've only seen it once. Though we can not possibly get it yet I liked seeing this sentence as kind of a preview so it's not such a shock when we get there.

April 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/mmseiple

You're right. For some reason it was showing up in Conjunctions, well before direct object pronouns (like "lo") were introduced. This should be resolved now.

February 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/TiagoMoita_PT

Shouldn't it be "No, non finché l'apri"? And how can "No, non finché non lo apri" be also correct, according to Duolingo?

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/giuliap

In general, "finché non = until", and "finché = while". You can find a discussion on this topic in the WordReference forum here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=47122highlight=finch%E9

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/TiagoMoita_PT

Thanks. It's clearer in my head, but still a bit of a brain-twister, especially the "unless not" case, which apparently forces the speaker to come up with a different wording from the translation...

And I just ran into this other Duolingo sentence "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane.", with no "non" after finché. Now I'm confused again.

(Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, and why not "l'apri", instead of "lo apri" by the way?

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/giuliap

I am no grammar expert, but I think it is correct to say "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" or "Io aspetto finché cerchi (look for) il cane". However in this specific case I would still understand the meaning because "finché trovi" = "while you find" which in Italian means while you are looking for it. But again, I am no expert and this is a little complicated, so I hope I am not saying anything wrong. I have never thought about it before :) As far as "l'apri" or "lo apri".. most people from where I am originally from (Northern Italy) would say and write "lo apri", while "l'apri" is correct but somewhat old-fashioned. Perhaps in Southern Italy it is still common, unfortunately I don't know. If you check here (http://grammatica-italiana.dossier.net/grammatica-italiana-02.htm) under "elisione" they say that both work. (sorry it's in Italian, I hope it's not too hard to understand).

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/TiagoMoita_PT

It's fine, I think I can manage. Grazie mille!

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Terence544359

Can you say whether "No, non fino a tu lo apri" is a correct translation " DL marked it wrong but I can not see the error if there is one ?

grazie mille

September 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/rsc55

I wrote "l'apri" and it was accepted.

August 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/JelenaKO

Why is LO in front of APRI?

July 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift

Direct objects ("lo" or "it" in this case) come before conjugated verbs, but after infinitives. Per esempio: Lo apri = You open it. Puoi aprirlo = You can open it. If you were to say "Aprilo", you would be using the imperative form/giving an informal command, i.e. "Open it."

October 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ptoro

Too bad pronouns haven't been taught yet. Duolingo oversight.

August 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/t_s_c

As I understand it, direct object pronouns go in front of the verb. Lo = him

September 6, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Alves_Tiago

My brain hurts...

July 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/KSmitch

Man... the difficulty really shot up there since conjunctions part 1.

November 20, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/prucsok

"No, non finché tu non lo apri." - why is not correct?

February 13, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/alexxe333

i wait, while you open it. NOT i wait, while you don't open it. Two "non"s are what the confusion is about. double check my correction. if two "non"s are okay, I'd like to know why.

September 11, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/briannakayte

Finche non is one phrase that should not be broken up. If you hover over the words, it defines finche as "as long as". So the sentence becomes, literally, "No, not as long as you don't open it".

October 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Elena18

I tried something similar (and also lost a heart :( " "No, finche non tu lo apri"? Could either of these work???

March 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/marziotta

No, sorry, wrong. "Non lo apri" must all stay together, Elena. Or you can write "No, non finché tu lo apri"

Prucsok, I think your option should be accepted.

"Finché tu lo apri" and "finché tu non lo apri" mean the same thing in Italian. "Finché tu non lo apri" is more common BUT I think that we are slowly getting the habit of English language not to use the negation there...

March 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/giuliap

Doesn't "finché lo apri" mean "While you are still opening it", whereas "finché non lo apri" is "until you open it"? I am italian too, and that's how I would interpret the two sentences. To me, they don't mean the same thing. (Tipo: "Aspetto finche' lo apri", ad esempio sto aspettando che tu abbia finito di aprire qualcosa, azione che stai compiendo ora. Invece "aspetto finche' non lo apri" vuol dire che sto aspettando che tu vada ad aprire qualcosa, azione che non hai ancora iniziato).

June 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Uomo_Siciliano

Whats the difference (if any) between "mentre" and "finché" because alot of people say finché also mean "while" like mentre. I already know that "finché non" means until but between those two worda is there a difference or would they be interchangable?

November 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/LA_danimo

Thank you for your feedback!! I had the same problem as Prucsok so I reported it.

January 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jyk_amacondr

Google search 05/05/2013 "No non finché non lo" 2 result [this topic thread]. "No, finché non lo" 169'000 results The answer "No, non finche' non lo X" has never been used in the history of the internet until now.

May 5, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/ericalridley

Agree I tripped on this one, too. But followed your lead and googled "non finche non" and actually came up with 332,000 hits. Here's a "No, non finche non": https://twitter.com/itsKin_/status/277772039660638208

July 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/olibelula

I was marked down for using 'la apri' instead of 'lo apri', with the advice 'pay attention to the gender'. But this is wrong, because the form 'IT' doesn't have a gender, could be either masc or fem.

July 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/djparke2

In general, I try to remember that when thinking about the connections of two words, Italians usually don't repeat vowels. For example, if you say "and I", in Italian as " e io " , the more correct written form is to put a D after the E, so it would be " ed io " . If saying " the lava of Etna " (Mount Etna is a volcano in Sicily), it is more correct to say " la lava d'Etna " or " la lava dell'Etna " than to say " la lava della Etna " , even though Etna technically ends in an A. Again with saying " the watch " or " the watches " , being " l'orologio " and " gli orologi " , respectively.

In your case, " la apri " is repeating a vowel, so I would think there is an error. It would be better to say " l'apri " or " lo apri " , since when you have a noun that starts with the letter A, the article is " l' ", but when talking about pronouns, and the noun isn't specifically mentioned, you may use " l' " or " lo " . I do believe that each is masculine or feminine, but once again, it doesn't matter when the noun is obscure.

I'm sorry if this made you more confused, but I hope this helped!

May 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/beautifull17

I wrote no,non finche non tu l'apri and it says wrong for adding tu i don't understand why

February 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/frrogggy

Why can I not have 'tu' in my answer? But then I'm not sure where the pronoun should go as we've had no detail on that yet.

March 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift

You should be able to have «tu» in there if you write it as such: «No, non finché (tu) non lo apri.» The subject precedes all of the other verb modifiers, such as pronouns, negatives, and objects, and even adverbs (which follow the verb). The order is as follows: (subject, i.e. io, tu, noi, etc.) (negative, i.e. «non»), (reflexive pronouns/indirect objects, i.e. si, gli, le, etc.) (direct objects, i.e. ti, lo, ne, li, etc.) and (verb, i.e. apri, mangio, dà, etc.).

March 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ItalianGirl1969

I don't think new words like the pronoun "lo" should be a problem here. It may be a pronoun we haven't been formally introduced to but you can tap the word it and get the Italian word. Even if you miss it the first time you see it the next time it pops up you will remember and learn. A word introduced out of sequence stands out better and is learned and remembered faster because it's alone.

August 9, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/sharinglanguage

Fino would be okay, right? Or must we use Finche in negative sentences?

August 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jarinhumphrey

I think my head just exploded...

October 13, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/atlgator

Wheres the "l'" from?

December 25, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/SergiDuaig

Shouldn't "No,non fino tu l'apri" be also correct?

February 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/lunaexoriens

I've got the same question.

November 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/safibta

Can someone remind me which lesson contains the first mention of 'lo'? I can't recall it. Thanks.

March 16, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/lordofrivendell

I've never had the word finiché

July 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Don.Mc

I have to say I think this phrase has done more harm then good in learning Italian!

May 16, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/cen3petal

used aprilo, failed

April 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/giuliap

Aprilo (i.e., with the "lo" after the verb) is used in the imperative form only. In all other cases (that I can think of right now), "lo, la, le" always precede the verb.

April 30, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wiplala

yes, but you can also put them after the verb when you use the whole verb. Like in: "vuoi aprire la porta?" becomes: "vuoi aprirla?" (Will you open the door - will you open it)

June 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift

That's only when the verb is in the infinitive form, however. To use the direct object after a conjugated verb is to put it into the (informal) imperative form.

October 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/wiplala

yes, you are right. I ment the infinitive by saying the whole verb. (bad English,sorry)

October 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/charm22

Is "No, non finché lo apri ". also correct? Or is the other "non" necessary like in the original sentence?

July 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/gciambrone

What about attaching the object pronoun (or is it an indirect object pronoun?) to the end of the infinitive of the verb, "aprerlo". Duolingo told me this was wrong when I did it.

July 28, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift
  1. It would be «aprirlo», with an "i" and not an "e".
  2. This is acceptable only after a conjugated verb beforehand, i.e. «Voglio aprirlo,» "I want to open it." If you just use an infinitive and no conjugated verb—i.e. «No, non finché non aprirlo,»—this would be akin to saying "No, not until to open it," which has no subject and makes no sense.
March 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/RaphuAmorim

I know is not taught here, but is "fino a quando" also ok to mean "until"?

September 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift

"Fino a" is a good form for "until", but "Fino a quando" is basically saying "Until when". To my knowledge, it doesn't make sense.

October 7, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/shjasani

Shouldn't this be "No, non finche non tu apri"? I don't understand "lo apri" is used. Can someone explain?

February 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/wiplala

you need the "lo" because it says you open IT. so the sentence will be:"No, non finche non (tu) lo apri.

February 17, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/lschwaegle

Then, how would you say, "No, not until you don't open it"? For example, someone is opening a window and the other person doesn't want to go into the room until the window is closed.

March 21, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ItalianFrog

I dont get why it uses 3 times no in the italian while in english only 2 no's are given. No, non finche (non) lo apri... For me it sounds more like "No, not until you (don't) open it", which gives a totally other context. As example take a box, I hold it in my hand and ask someone if I can see the ring inside and get "No, not until you open it (No, non finché tu lo apri)" as reply, this makes sense, because if I open the box I can see the ring.

Explain please why I have to add the 3rd negation?

August 22, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/divaluisa

Here's another example of triple negatives: No, not until you don't open it. This is a hard one to get my head around.

October 11, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Ispirac

No non finché lo aprite.

November 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/fiorenza.m2

Fino a che, ha lo stesso significato di "finché"

November 23, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/gill.newso

Also not specified whether tu or voi so therefore both forms SHOULD be accepted.

March 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Erinewalpole

Why is it "non finche non"?

April 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Jeff_Alfa

I now understand finche requiring a "non" in context, but don't know why a double negative is correct and using no "non" is not.

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/meb4444

I don't get why there are 2 non's in it.

May 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/edruseru

Why is it two non? Makes no sense to me. It's like: no, not until not open it.

June 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/italianjdl

Why 2 non s? There is only 1 not!

July 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/busedikici

Am i the only one who can't get what the point in this sentence is?

July 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/faezeha

I always confuse in using " finche non" :(((( why non finche non ?!!!!!!! When we must use finche non and when fino a?!!

August 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ToddPhillips

So, I selected two choices, only one DL considers correct. The two I selected were:

  1. No, non finche non lo apri (which I and DL agreed was correct)
  2. No, non finche voi non l'aprite.

These seem to be syntactically the same, the only difference being that one uses tu and the other voi. Can someone explain why I got this wrong?

Thanks

October 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ToddPhillips

OK, nvm. The second one I wrote (which Duolingo said I got wrong) said Non, non finche...

I understand why that is wrong.

October 5, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Ruckelhaxan

I still don't get it why it is wrong to say No, non finché non tu l'apri.

No (No,)
non (not)
finché non (until)
tu (you)
l'apri (it open) - surely lo apri is correct elided to l'apri

December 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/bellunoman

Why is "non" in there twice? Makes no sense....

December 31, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Barbara9206

This is the first one to give me real trouble, it was difficult

March 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTalbo2

Two “non’s.” Is this an Italian double negative?

April 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/lcf02139

I wonder why "Non fino ad aprilo" is wrong.

June 24, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/SueGibb8

I didn't have a clue. My verbal response was, "No freakin' idea." - twice. Even the correct answer - given was not the same as the translation given at the top of this discussion page. Answer was .... l'apri. UP above is lo apri. Not sure what is right.

July 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Lucidlinguist

Can somebody explain why the second "non" is necessary before "lo apri"?

August 12, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Paddington

The answer is wrong. ("non" repeated twice)

August 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/mariuskoc

I can't work out the construction of this sentence

November 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/EREyRU

Why is it "non finchè non lo apri"? Im not questioning the correctness or sense: i want to know what we're supposed to be learning from this and how we're expected to learn it with zero feedback. How are we supposed to know how to construct this sentence or apply the rule we (supposedly) learn to other sentences?

December 14, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/nstallaert2

Why do you need to put "non" before AND after "finche" ? To me "non finche" makes sense to say "not until" but to have "non lo apri" makes it seem like it says "you do not open it". So I feel like "no, not until you open it" should be "no, non finche lo apri".

January 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/GidiZisk

This sentence is more reasonable when I add a verb before the first "non": "non mangia finché non lo apri":

"non mangia" - don't eat

finché = as long as

non lo apri = You don't open it

"finché non lo apri" = as long as you don't open it, has the same logic as "until you open it"

so "non mangia finché non lo apri" = Don't eat until you open it, if you omit the verb, not (some untold action) until you open it

January 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/NoahbleRob

I dont know why its not "No, non finché non lo apri"

April 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Ruckelhaxan

But that IS the correct translation given by Duolingo, isn't it? At least on my laptop it is.

April 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Kay144809

wait is aprire in the subjunctive here?

April 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Valete

This is also what people will say but not accepted (more things to change in their translation) No, non finché lo si apre.

February 2, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/D-Shift
  1. It would be «se lo apre» as the reflexive pronoun is treated as the indirect object.
  2. The impersonal is for general expressions, such as "No, non until one opens it," in English. This sentence is directly referring to you, «tu», so you wouldn't use the higher-level impersonal.
March 4, 2014
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