"No, not until you open it."
Translation:No, non finché non lo apri.
This phrase is too advanced for the current level. It uses infrequently used words (like apri) and pronouns (like it).
It's hard. Trying to understand and be helpful this is my way to try to decipher it:
No, non [finché non] [lo apri]. No, not [as long as not] [it you open]. - - - - or in other words - - - - No, not [until] [you open it]
I agree, but I don't mind. It's one heart and I've only seen it once. Though we can not possibly get it yet I liked seeing this sentence as kind of a preview so it's not such a shock when we get there.
You're right. For some reason it was showing up in Conjunctions, well before direct object pronouns (like "lo") were introduced. This should be resolved now.
Shouldn't it be "No, non finché l'apri"? And how can "No, non finché non lo apri" be also correct, according to Duolingo?
In general, "finché non = until", and "finché = while". You can find a discussion on this topic in the WordReference forum here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=47122highlight=finch%E9
Thanks. It's clearer in my head, but still a bit of a brain-twister, especially the "unless not" case, which apparently forces the speaker to come up with a different wording from the translation...
And I just ran into this other Duolingo sentence "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane.", with no "non" after finché. Now I'm confused again.
(Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, and why not "l'apri", instead of "lo apri" by the way?
I am no grammar expert, but I think it is correct to say "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" or "Io aspetto finché cerchi (look for) il cane". However in this specific case I would still understand the meaning because "finché trovi" = "while you find" which in Italian means while you are looking for it. But again, I am no expert and this is a little complicated, so I hope I am not saying anything wrong. I have never thought about it before :) As far as "l'apri" or "lo apri".. most people from where I am originally from (Northern Italy) would say and write "lo apri", while "l'apri" is correct but somewhat old-fashioned. Perhaps in Southern Italy it is still common, unfortunately I don't know. If you check here (http://grammatica-italiana.dossier.net/grammatica-italiana-02.htm) under "elisione" they say that both work. (sorry it's in Italian, I hope it's not too hard to understand).
Can you say whether "No, non fino a tu lo apri" is a correct translation " DL marked it wrong but I can not see the error if there is one ?
Direct objects ("lo" or "it" in this case) come before conjugated verbs, but after infinitives. Per esempio: Lo apri = You open it. Puoi aprirlo = You can open it. If you were to say "Aprilo", you would be using the imperative form/giving an informal command, i.e. "Open it."
i wait, while you open it. NOT i wait, while you don't open it. Two "non"s are what the confusion is about. double check my correction. if two "non"s are okay, I'd like to know why.
I tried something similar (and also lost a heart :( " "No, finche non tu lo apri"? Could either of these work???
No, sorry, wrong. "Non lo apri" must all stay together, Elena. Or you can write "No, non finché tu lo apri"
Prucsok, I think your option should be accepted.
"Finché tu lo apri" and "finché tu non lo apri" mean the same thing in Italian. "Finché tu non lo apri" is more common BUT I think that we are slowly getting the habit of English language not to use the negation there...
Doesn't "finché lo apri" mean "While you are still opening it", whereas "finché non lo apri" is "until you open it"? I am italian too, and that's how I would interpret the two sentences. To me, they don't mean the same thing. (Tipo: "Aspetto finche' lo apri", ad esempio sto aspettando che tu abbia finito di aprire qualcosa, azione che stai compiendo ora. Invece "aspetto finche' non lo apri" vuol dire che sto aspettando che tu vada ad aprire qualcosa, azione che non hai ancora iniziato).
Thank you for your feedback!! I had the same problem as Prucsok so I reported it.
Google search 05/05/2013 "No non finché non lo" 2 result [this topic thread]. "No, finché non lo" 169'000 results The answer "No, non finche' non lo X" has never been used in the history of the internet until now.
Agree I tripped on this one, too. But followed your lead and googled "non finche non" and actually came up with 332,000 hits. Here's a "No, non finche non": https://twitter.com/itsKin_/status/277772039660638208
I was marked down for using 'la apri' instead of 'lo apri', with the advice 'pay attention to the gender'. But this is wrong, because the form 'IT' doesn't have a gender, could be either masc or fem.
In general, I try to remember that when thinking about the connections of two words, Italians usually don't repeat vowels. For example, if you say "and I", in Italian as " e io " , the more correct written form is to put a D after the E, so it would be " ed io " . If saying " the lava of Etna " (Mount Etna is a volcano in Sicily), it is more correct to say " la lava d'Etna " or " la lava dell'Etna " than to say " la lava della Etna " , even though Etna technically ends in an A. Again with saying " the watch " or " the watches " , being " l'orologio " and " gli orologi " , respectively.
In your case, " la apri " is repeating a vowel, so I would think there is an error. It would be better to say " l'apri " or " lo apri " , since when you have a noun that starts with the letter A, the article is " l' ", but when talking about pronouns, and the noun isn't specifically mentioned, you may use " l' " or " lo " . I do believe that each is masculine or feminine, but once again, it doesn't matter when the noun is obscure.
I'm sorry if this made you more confused, but I hope this helped!
I wrote no,non finche non tu l'apri and it says wrong for adding tu i don't understand why
Why can I not have 'tu' in my answer? But then I'm not sure where the pronoun should go as we've had no detail on that yet.
You should be able to have «tu» in there if you write it as such: «No, non finché (tu) non lo apri.» The subject precedes all of the other verb modifiers, such as pronouns, negatives, and objects, and even adverbs (which follow the verb). The order is as follows: (subject, i.e. io, tu, noi, etc.) (negative, i.e. «non»), (reflexive pronouns/indirect objects, i.e. si, gli, le, etc.) (direct objects, i.e. ti, lo, ne, li, etc.) and (verb, i.e. apri, mangio, dà, etc.).
I don't think new words like the pronoun "lo" should be a problem here. It may be a pronoun we haven't been formally introduced to but you can tap the word it and get the Italian word. Even if you miss it the first time you see it the next time it pops up you will remember and learn. A word introduced out of sequence stands out better and is learned and remembered faster because it's alone.
Fino would be okay, right? Or must we use Finche in negative sentences?
Can someone remind me which lesson contains the first mention of 'lo'? I can't recall it. Thanks.
I have to say I think this phrase has done more harm then good in learning Italian!
Aprilo (i.e., with the "lo" after the verb) is used in the imperative form only. In all other cases (that I can think of right now), "lo, la, le" always precede the verb.
yes, but you can also put them after the verb when you use the whole verb. Like in: "vuoi aprire la porta?" becomes: "vuoi aprirla?" (Will you open the door - will you open it)
That's only when the verb is in the infinitive form, however. To use the direct object after a conjugated verb is to put it into the (informal) imperative form.
yes, you are right. I ment the infinitive by saying the whole verb. (bad English,sorry)
Is "No, non finché lo apri ". also correct? Or is the other "non" necessary like in the original sentence?
What about attaching the object pronoun (or is it an indirect object pronoun?) to the end of the infinitive of the verb, "aprerlo". Duolingo told me this was wrong when I did it.
- It would be «aprirlo», with an "i" and not an "e".
- This is acceptable only after a conjugated verb beforehand, i.e. «Voglio aprirlo,» "I want to open it." If you just use an infinitive and no conjugated verb—i.e. «No, non finché non aprirlo,»—this would be akin to saying "No, not until to open it," which has no subject and makes no sense.
I know is not taught here, but is "fino a quando" also ok to mean "until"?
"Fino a" is a good form for "until", but "Fino a quando" is basically saying "Until when". To my knowledge, it doesn't make sense.
Shouldn't this be "No, non finche non tu apri"? I don't understand "lo apri" is used. Can someone explain?
you need the "lo" because it says you open IT. so the sentence will be:"No, non finche non (tu) lo apri.
Then, how would you say, "No, not until you don't open it"? For example, someone is opening a window and the other person doesn't want to go into the room until the window is closed.
I dont get why it uses 3 times no in the italian while in english only 2 no's are given. No, non finche (non) lo apri... For me it sounds more like "No, not until you (don't) open it", which gives a totally other context. As example take a box, I hold it in my hand and ask someone if I can see the ring inside and get "No, not until you open it (No, non finché tu lo apri)" as reply, this makes sense, because if I open the box I can see the ring.
Explain please why I have to add the 3rd negation?
Here's another example of triple negatives: No, not until you don't open it. This is a hard one to get my head around.
Also not specified whether tu or voi so therefore both forms SHOULD be accepted.
I now understand finche requiring a "non" in context, but don't know why a double negative is correct and using no "non" is not.
I always confuse in using " finche non" :(((( why non finche non ?!!!!!!! When we must use finche non and when fino a?!!
So, I selected two choices, only one DL considers correct. The two I selected were:
- No, non finche non lo apri (which I and DL agreed was correct)
- No, non finche voi non l'aprite.
These seem to be syntactically the same, the only difference being that one uses tu and the other voi. Can someone explain why I got this wrong?
OK, nvm. The second one I wrote (which Duolingo said I got wrong) said Non, non finche...
I understand why that is wrong.
I still don't get it why it is wrong to say No, non finché non tu l'apri.
finché non (until)
l'apri (it open) - surely lo apri is correct elided to l'apri
I didn't have a clue. My verbal response was, "No freakin' idea." - twice. Even the correct answer - given was not the same as the translation given at the top of this discussion page. Answer was .... l'apri. UP above is lo apri. Not sure what is right.
Can somebody explain why the second "non" is necessary before "lo apri"?
Why is it "non finchè non lo apri"? Im not questioning the correctness or sense: i want to know what we're supposed to be learning from this and how we're expected to learn it with zero feedback. How are we supposed to know how to construct this sentence or apply the rule we (supposedly) learn to other sentences?
Why do you need to put "non" before AND after "finche" ? To me "non finche" makes sense to say "not until" but to have "non lo apri" makes it seem like it says "you do not open it". So I feel like "no, not until you open it" should be "no, non finche lo apri".
This sentence is more reasonable when I add a verb before the first "non": "non mangia finché non lo apri":
"non mangia" - don't eat
finché = as long as
non lo apri = You don't open it
"finché non lo apri" = as long as you don't open it, has the same logic as "until you open it"
so "non mangia finché non lo apri" = Don't eat until you open it, if you omit the verb, not (some untold action) until you open it
But that IS the correct translation given by Duolingo, isn't it? At least on my laptop it is.
This is also what people will say but not accepted (more things to change in their translation) No, non finché lo si apre.
- It would be «se lo apre» as the reflexive pronoun is treated as the indirect object.
- The impersonal is for general expressions, such as "No, non until one opens it," in English. This sentence is directly referring to you, «tu», so you wouldn't use the higher-level impersonal.