"No, not until you open it."

Translation:No, non finché non lo apri.

January 17, 2013

This discussion is locked.


This phrase is too advanced for the current level. It uses infrequently used words (like apri) and pronouns (like it).


It's hard, - this is my way to try to decipher it:

finché = fino+a+che = as long as
finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
not (as-long-as) = until

No - non - (finché non) - lo - apri. =
No - not - (until) - it - you open. ~

No not until you open it.


I agree, but I don't mind. It's one heart and I've only seen it once. Though we can not possibly get it yet I liked seeing this sentence as kind of a preview so it's not such a shock when we get there.


Aprire is a regular verb meaning to open or to open up. Apri is the second person singular meaning 'you open'. Finché by itself means 'as long as' or 'while'. 'Finche non' means 'until' It is a false negative! The true negative is 'Non finché non' meaning 'not until' Lo is a direct object pronoun meaning either 'it' or 'him'


You're right. For some reason it was showing up in Conjunctions, well before direct object pronouns (like "lo") were introduced. This should be resolved now.


It's now in Clitics-1


They have used apri a number of times before this, usually opening doors, windows, and i think jars too.


aprire = to open

io . . . . . apro
tu . . . . . apri
lui/lei . . . apre
noi . . . . apriamo
voi . . . . aprite
loro . . . aprono


The tips are all about pronouns - it's the point of this skill!!


Shouldn't it be "No, non finché l'apri"? And how can "No, non finché non lo apri" be also correct, according to Duolingo?


In general, "finché non = until", and "finché = while". You can find a discussion on this topic in the WordReference forum here: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=47122highlight=finch%E9


Thanks. It's clearer in my head, but still a bit of a brain-twister, especially the "unless not" case, which apparently forces the speaker to come up with a different wording from the translation...

And I just ran into this other Duolingo sentence "Io aspetto finché trovi il cane.", with no "non" after finché. Now I'm confused again.

(Sorry to be such a pain in the ass, and why not "l'apri", instead of "lo apri" by the way?


I am no grammar expert, but I think it is correct to say "Io aspetto finché non trovi il cane" or "Io aspetto finché cerchi (look for) il cane". However in this specific case I would still understand the meaning because "finché trovi" = "while you find" which in Italian means while you are looking for it. But again, I am no expert and this is a little complicated, so I hope I am not saying anything wrong. I have never thought about it before :) As far as "l'apri" or "lo apri".. most people from where I am originally from (Northern Italy) would say and write "lo apri", while "l'apri" is correct but somewhat old-fashioned. Perhaps in Southern Italy it is still common, unfortunately I don't know. If you check here (http://grammatica-italiana.dossier.net/grammatica-italiana-02.htm) under "elisione" they say that both work. (sorry it's in Italian, I hope it's not too hard to understand).


It's fine, I think I can manage. Grazie mille!


Can you say whether "No, non fino a tu lo apri" is a correct translation " DL marked it wrong but I can not see the error if there is one ?

grazie mille


I wrote "l'apri" and it was accepted.


Why is LO in front of APRI?


Direct objects ("lo" or "it" in this case) come before conjugated verbs, but after infinitives. Per esempio: Lo apri = You open it. Puoi aprirlo = You can open it. If you were to say "Aprilo", you would be using the imperative form/giving an informal command, i.e. "Open it."


Too bad pronouns haven't been taught yet. Duolingo oversight.


Man... the difficulty really shot up there since conjunctions part 1.


"No, non finché tu non lo apri." - why is not correct?


i wait, while you open it. NOT i wait, while you don't open it. Two "non"s are what the confusion is about. double check my correction. if two "non"s are okay, I'd like to know why.


Finche non is one phrase that should not be broken up. If you hover over the words, it defines finche as "as long as". So the sentence becomes, literally, "No, not as long as you don't open it".


I tried something similar (and also lost a heart :( " "No, finche non tu lo apri"? Could either of these work???


No, sorry, wrong. "Non lo apri" must all stay together, Elena. Or you can write "No, non finché tu lo apri"

Prucsok, I think your option should be accepted.

"Finché tu lo apri" and "finché tu non lo apri" mean the same thing in Italian. "Finché tu non lo apri" is more common BUT I think that we are slowly getting the habit of English language not to use the negation there...


Doesn't "finché lo apri" mean "While you are still opening it", whereas "finché non lo apri" is "until you open it"? I am italian too, and that's how I would interpret the two sentences. To me, they don't mean the same thing. (Tipo: "Aspetto finche' lo apri", ad esempio sto aspettando che tu abbia finito di aprire qualcosa, azione che stai compiendo ora. Invece "aspetto finche' non lo apri" vuol dire che sto aspettando che tu vada ad aprire qualcosa, azione che non hai ancora iniziato).


Whats the difference (if any) between "mentre" and "finché" because alot of people say finché also mean "while" like mentre. I already know that "finché non" means until but between those two worda is there a difference or would they be interchangable?


mentre = while

finché (fino+a+che) = as long as

finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
not (as-long-as) = until


Thank you for your feedback!! I had the same problem as Prucsok so I reported it.


As "apri" = "you open" there is no need for an extra "tu".

No = No
non = not
finché (fino+a+che) non ~ not (as-long-as) = until
lo = it / him
apri = you open

No, not, until, it, you open =

No not until you open it.


I guess this sentence with its multiple negations was a nightmare for the native English speakers...


I think my head just exploded...


Shouldn't "No,non fino tu l'apri" be also correct?


I've got the same question.


Why can I not have 'tu' in my answer? But then I'm not sure where the pronoun should go as we've had no detail on that yet.


You should be able to have «tu» in there if you write it as such: «No, non finché (tu) non lo apri.» The subject precedes all of the other verb modifiers, such as pronouns, negatives, and objects, and even adverbs (which follow the verb). The order is as follows: (subject, i.e. io, tu, noi, etc.) (negative, i.e. «non»), (reflexive pronouns/indirect objects, i.e. si, gli, le, etc.) (direct objects, i.e. ti, lo, ne, li, etc.) and (verb, i.e. apri, mangio, dà, etc.).


Google search 05/05/2013 "No non finché non lo" 2 result [this topic thread]. "No, finché non lo" 169'000 results The answer "No, non finche' non lo X" has never been used in the history of the internet until now.


Agree I tripped on this one, too. But followed your lead and googled "non finche non" and actually came up with 332,000 hits. Here's a "No, non finche non": https://twitter.com/itsKin_/status/277772039660638208


I was marked down for using 'la apri' instead of 'lo apri', with the advice 'pay attention to the gender'. But this is wrong, because the form 'IT' doesn't have a gender, could be either masc or fem.


In general, I try to remember that when thinking about the connections of two words, Italians usually don't repeat vowels. For example, if you say "and I", in Italian as " e io " , the more correct written form is to put a D after the E, so it would be " ed io " . If saying " the lava of Etna " (Mount Etna is a volcano in Sicily), it is more correct to say " la lava d'Etna " or " la lava dell'Etna " than to say " la lava della Etna " , even though Etna technically ends in an A. Again with saying " the watch " or " the watches " , being " l'orologio " and " gli orologi " , respectively.

In your case, " la apri " is repeating a vowel, so I would think there is an error. It would be better to say " l'apri " or " lo apri " , since when you have a noun that starts with the letter A, the article is " l' ", but when talking about pronouns, and the noun isn't specifically mentioned, you may use " l' " or " lo " . I do believe that each is masculine or feminine, but once again, it doesn't matter when the noun is obscure.

I'm sorry if this made you more confused, but I hope this helped!


I wrote no,non finche non tu l'apri and it says wrong for adding tu i don't understand why


My brain hurts...


I don't think new words like the pronoun "lo" should be a problem here. It may be a pronoun we haven't been formally introduced to but you can tap the word it and get the Italian word. Even if you miss it the first time you see it the next time it pops up you will remember and learn. A word introduced out of sequence stands out better and is learned and remembered faster because it's alone.


Fino would be okay, right? Or must we use Finche in negative sentences?


Wheres the "l'" from?


Can someone remind me which lesson contains the first mention of 'lo'? I can't recall it. Thanks.


I've never had the word finiché


I have to say I think this phrase has done more harm then good in learning Italian!


Can somebody explain why the second "non" is necessary before "lo apri"?


non finché = non (fino+a+che) = not as long as

finché non = as-long-as not ~
not as-long-as = until

non finché non = not until


Sounds to my American brain like "not until you don't open it." This gets really mind bending.


Why in "non" written twice in the answer?


non finché = non (fino+a+che) = not as long as

finché non = as-long-as not ~ not as-long-as = until

non finché non = not until

[deactivated user]

    used aprilo, failed


    Aprilo (i.e., with the "lo" after the verb) is used in the imperative form only. In all other cases (that I can think of right now), "lo, la, le" always precede the verb.


    yes, but you can also put them after the verb when you use the whole verb. Like in: "vuoi aprire la porta?" becomes: "vuoi aprirla?" (Will you open the door - will you open it)


    That's only when the verb is in the infinitive form, however. To use the direct object after a conjugated verb is to put it into the (informal) imperative form.


    yes, you are right. I ment the infinitive by saying the whole verb. (bad English,sorry)


    Is "No, non finché lo apri ". also correct? Or is the other "non" necessary like in the original sentence?


    What about attaching the object pronoun (or is it an indirect object pronoun?) to the end of the infinitive of the verb, "aprerlo". Duolingo told me this was wrong when I did it.

    1. It would be «aprirlo», with an "i" and not an "e".
    2. This is acceptable only after a conjugated verb beforehand, i.e. «Voglio aprirlo,» "I want to open it." If you just use an infinitive and no conjugated verb—i.e. «No, non finché non aprirlo,»—this would be akin to saying "No, not until to open it," which has no subject and makes no sense.


    I know is not taught here, but is "fino a quando" also ok to mean "until"?


    "Fino a" is a good form for "until", but "Fino a quando" is basically saying "Until when". To my knowledge, it doesn't make sense.


    No, non fino a quando lo apri. = No, not until when you open it.


    Shouldn't this be "No, non finche non tu apri"? I don't understand "lo apri" is used. Can someone explain?


    you need the "lo" because it says you open IT. so the sentence will be:"No, non finche non (tu) lo apri.


    Then, how would you say, "No, not until you don't open it"? For example, someone is opening a window and the other person doesn't want to go into the room until the window is closed.


    No, non fino a quando non l'apri.

    There is a slight change in this as it means "No, not until when you don't open it", - and as it is la finestra lo changes to l'.


    I dont get why it uses 3 times no in the italian while in english only 2 no's are given. No, non finche (non) lo apri... For me it sounds more like "No, not until you (don't) open it", which gives a totally other context. As example take a box, I hold it in my hand and ask someone if I can see the ring inside and get "No, not until you open it (No, non finché tu lo apri)" as reply, this makes sense, because if I open the box I can see the ring.

    Explain please why I have to add the 3rd negation?


    Here's another example of triple negatives: No, not until you don't open it. This is a hard one to get my head around.


    No non finché lo aprite.


    Fino a che, ha lo stesso significato di "finché"


    Also not specified whether tu or voi so therefore both forms SHOULD be accepted.


    *tu' -> No, non finché non lo apri.

    voi -> No, non finché non lo aprite.


    Why is it "non finche non"?


    finché = fino+a+che = as-long-as
    non finché = not as-long-as

    finché non = (as-long-as) not ~
    not (as-long-as) = until

    non finché non = not until


    I now understand finche requiring a "non" in context, but don't know why a double negative is correct and using no "non" is not.


    I don't get why there are 2 non's in it.


    Why is it two non? Makes no sense to me. It's like: no, not until not open it.


    Why 2 non s? There is only 1 not!


    Am i the only one who can't get what the point in this sentence is?


    I always confuse in using " finche non" :(((( why non finche non ?!!!!!!! When we must use finche non and when fino a?!!


    So, I selected two choices, only one DL considers correct. The two I selected were:

    1. No, non finche non lo apri (which I and DL agreed was correct)
    2. No, non finche voi non l'aprite.

    These seem to be syntactically the same, the only difference being that one uses tu and the other voi. Can someone explain why I got this wrong?



    OK, nvm. The second one I wrote (which Duolingo said I got wrong) said Non, non finche...

    I understand why that is wrong.


    I still don't get it why it is wrong to say No, non finché non tu l'apri.

    No (No,)
    non (not)
    finché non (until)
    tu (you)
    l'apri (it open) - surely lo apri is correct elided to l'apri


    lo apri = you open it (it = il bar)
    l'apri = you open it (it = la finestra)


    Why is "non" in there twice? Makes no sense....


    This is the first one to give me real trouble, it was difficult


    Two “non’s.” Is this an Italian double negative?


    I wonder why "Non fino ad aprilo" is wrong.


    I didn't have a clue. My verbal response was, "No freakin' idea." - twice. Even the correct answer - given was not the same as the translation given at the top of this discussion page. Answer was .... l'apri. UP above is lo apri. Not sure what is right.


    The answer is wrong. ("non" repeated twice)


    I can't work out the construction of this sentence


    Why is it "non finchè non lo apri"? Im not questioning the correctness or sense: i want to know what we're supposed to be learning from this and how we're expected to learn it with zero feedback. How are we supposed to know how to construct this sentence or apply the rule we (supposedly) learn to other sentences?


    Why do you need to put "non" before AND after "finche" ? To me "non finche" makes sense to say "not until" but to have "non lo apri" makes it seem like it says "you do not open it". So I feel like "no, not until you open it" should be "no, non finche lo apri".


    This sentence is more reasonable when I add a verb before the first "non": "non mangia finché non lo apri":

    "non mangia" - don't eat

    finché = as long as

    non lo apri = You don't open it

    "finché non lo apri" = as long as you don't open it, has the same logic as "until you open it"

    so "non mangia finché non lo apri" = Don't eat until you open it, if you omit the verb, not (some untold action) until you open it


    I dont know why its not "No, non finché non lo apri"


    But that IS the correct translation given by Duolingo, isn't it? At least on my laptop it is.


    wait is aprire in the subjunctive here?


    It's saying non until you don't open it. It's wrong!


    I was right. The first and second choice were identical.


    I just can't agree with this. Based on what people have said, I think "lo apri" would be more like "until IT'S opened", but the question is until YOU open it, so it should be "tu apri" or whatever l[x] term that means "you"


    are not # 2 and #3 the exact same sentence?


    Doesn't this mean No, not until you don't open it???

    • finché = fino+a+che = up+to+that = as-long-as
    • finché non = 'as-long-as' not = not 'as-long-as' = until

    No, non 'finché non' lo apri. =
    No, not . . . 'until' . . it you open. =
    No, not until you open it.


    Three negatives? Why? Talk about over qualifying.


    Troppe Negazioni! La frase in un italiano più scorrevole


    It is wrong.Italians say" finchèe non lo apri"

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