"Ho saputo del tuo matrimonio."

Translation:I have found out about your wedding.

January 17, 2013

80 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/canlyhansen

Wait, nobody discusses about the sentence? Come on, looks like we have a fight, speak now or never

April 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/malcolmissimo

Things might become clearer if you consider both sapere and conoscere. Both translate into English 'to know', but sapere is to know facts, data, information, while conoscere is to know (be acquainted with) people, places, objects, etc.

So far so good. But the English past tense 'I knew' is a continuous state, which demands the imperfetto. This leaves the passato prossimo tense (completed action in the recent past) with no obvious function. However, being logical, Italian applies it to the action of acquiring the knowledge.

So, the most literally accurate translation is 'first knew', 'came to know' or 'got to know' according to context. But in English it would be more common to say 'I found out [about]' = ho saputo [di] and 'I met' = ho conosciuto. Simple really.

January 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

malcolm...great explanation. Not just simple and starightforward, but logical too. Thanks!

January 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/malcolmissimo

Thank you for your kindness. Perhaps we should note for completeness that sapere or conoscere may not be the right choices when translating from English, unless the context is 'first getting to know'. Commonly, found out = scoperto, appreso o trovato; heard = sentito o appreso; learned = imparato o appreso; met = incontrato o fatto la conoscenza di. Note how generically useful apprendere is.

January 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/lynettemcw

This makes some sense to me since I speak Spanish. But Spanish actively uses the preterite, the imperfect and the present perfect, and this finite concept of knowing which translates as to find out, learn about or meet is only applicable to the preterite. Normally in Italian the passado prossimo can be translated to or from either the English simple past or the present perfect. So my question here is If I wanted to say I have known which definitely would imply that I still know, I would use the imperfect for these verbs?

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

That's an interesting question. I think you would just use the present tense.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Marninger

Ho=I have, saputo=known, del tuo=about your, matrimonio=wedding.

I have known ~ I have found out about your wedding

January 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

"Ho saputo" = "I have found out / heard / learned"

January 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/taenaron

but my "learned" was not accepted

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/malcolmissimo

See the first thread above. Duo often rejects alternatives if they are taught with a different primary meaning (to learn = imparare).

July 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Randonneur3

'I learned of your wedding' is approved.

August 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sigira0

I knew about your wedding is better, I believe...

January 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

That would be "sapevo del tuo matrimonio".

January 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/TopClampet

I recklessly tried that, despite there being no drop down option, and I was marked correct!

May 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/HTVWI

Yes, I was expecting a little intrigue as well.

May 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Why not "I learned of your wedding" especially since "sapere" is translated as "to learn" in other examples.

July 23, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/DaveVelo1

"Sapere" is to know about something. "I learned" would be "Ho imparato"

March 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

DaveVelo1: Not in this context. 'imparare' is to learn a skill, whereas 'sapere' is to learn about something in the sense of hearing about it, becoming aware of it.

March 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/malcolmissimo

The trouble is, nowhere in the references do "learn" or "discover" appear in relation to sapere. The closest is Wordreference, with "hear (colloquial)". Apprendere, imparare e scoprire do the job better.

March 3, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/ArtBurnap

Though as Roman2095 pointed out in his Reverso citatation that even the infinitive of sapere can sometimes be translated as "hear about" or "find out," the key to understanding the meaning here is the verb tense. In Italian (as in Spanish, but unlike English) there is a clear difference in the meaning of sapere in the imperfect (sapevo) and in the passato prossimo (ho saputo). The first simply means that I knew something in the past. The second, however, means that I didn't know it previously, but came to know it (=heard, found out, learned of). Yes, there are examples at Word Reference under both the WR and Collins tabs. The Italian gloss for this meaning there is "venire a conoscenza" under the WR tab. Under Collins, look under 1a. The matter is spelled a little more explicitly at: https://blogs.transparent.com/italian/passato-prossimo-e-imperfetto/. They give the examples: 1 Non sapevo che eri malato. I didn't know you were sick. 2 Solo ieri ho saputo che eri malato. I only found out yesterday that you were sick. And if you think to "learn of" is confined to school, then when one learns of another's treachery, they must have learned about it in the school of hard knocks.

August 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/roman2095

Reverso Context has a few of them, so it seems that sapere di has a pretty loose range of translations into English according to the context:

http://context.reverso.net/traduction/italien-anglais/sapere+di

I agree with Germanlehrerlsu that "learned of..." might be a better translation as "found out about...." can have connotations of either defeating attempts to hide something, or accidentally hearing about something you were not supposed to hear about.

March 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Randonneur3

word reference has an american bias.

August 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Koolkaren

My dictionary says that it can mean either marriage or wedding. I guess you have to rely on the context.

March 11, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/DiazMarcelo

I used "I learned" and it marked it wrong, why?

July 22, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margaret_S

to learn is imparare. Sapere is to know, as with wisdom, to know completely. Conoscere is to know, as to know of, or have met, somebody.

April 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

"Ho saputo" is "I learned/heard/found out".

December 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao
January 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/3amk6

Because of the context, i think. Sapere means either know, learn, or be able to. Of course in this sentence find out is used, but that's because none of the english translations above are appropriate in this example.

August 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

"I learned of your wedding" isn't appropriate? It's absolutely standard English and a very common way of saying that one's "found out" something.

August 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/xyphax

I think 'learned' is fine. I also like the translation 'discovered'.

August 29, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/kenan820

Agreed and still marked wrong. I've reported it. Jan 11 2015

January 12, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/rjjacob

It accepted "I learned of your marriage."

July 3, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/AnneArdon

Best use: yelled at your amico/amica.

March 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ancona06

Oh absolutely...! ;-) Isn'this a wonderful prompt for a comedy/drama sigh

October 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/LadyCarrington53

when learning a new word, it might be a good idea if it was in the drop down list!

December 11, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/ziggKogg

Any particular reason why the hovering hint for "saputo" is "canned"?

July 30, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Margaret_S

occasionally i find DL has it comically wrong in the hover box

April 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ackworth

i have the meaning of saputo (sapere) as 'to know, to be able to.'. To find out as in finding out about something I have the word scoprire, would this be a better word to use in this case?

July 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/benczurp

As far as i know, this is a tricky issue with sapere -- passato prossimo or imperfetto. With imperfetto, it means "i knew about it", while with pp, it refers to a particular moment after which you knew it -- i.e., you figured it out/learned/heard about. Learned should be nevertheless ok...

December 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Margaret_S

scoprire is discover. could be a good verb for the sentence. coprire is cover, scoprire is uncover. Also remember the root meaning of sapere is 'wisdom'

April 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/germz20

"Find out" isn't the same as "to know"

September 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

I agree completely - it should be accepted.

September 10, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/thom36

matrimonio = marriage, not wedding?

January 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/conradsb

It means both. Or, at least, on DL it means both.

August 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Catia9

So doesn't it mean both in Italy?

July 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/nefoster

How about I knew of your wedding

September 2, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/hudnut217

Exactly. I think that is the most direct and plain translation. That's what I put, and it was correct.

January 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/WingFan

I was wondering if that would be accepted, thanks.

November 17, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

That would be "sapevo del tuo matrimonio".

December 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Marifka

So it can really be "i have found out" and" i knew about..", really? these are two different things for me:/

October 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/hudnut217

I agree. One is a simple fact "knew". The other, "found out" refers to some sort of antecedent. Perhaps in Italian there isn't much of a distinction, perhaps the distinction is contextual, or perhaps this is just a poor translation from DL.

January 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

It doesn't mean both and they are two different things, you are correct. "Sapevo" is "I knew" and "ho saputo" is "I heard/learned/found out".

December 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Marifka

Now I know that when you use passato prossimo it means "I found out" :) When you want to say - I knew about it you have to say " Sapevo" :) Saluti!

November 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/KingOfAcorns

i'm lost ...... is there any difference between Past simple and Present perfect in italian ? From what i've seen Passato prossimo can be both

April 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

King...Yes, here present perfect is required because 'hearing/learning' about something presumably is a 1 time action, over and done with. Simple past is used for habitual actions in the past or for past conditions/situations that exist over a period of time.

April 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

The passato prossimo is technically referred to as the present perfect tense, but when translating it into English it is usually the simple past. They are the same tense, so technically you can translate an Italian passato prossimo sentence as either, but the simple past is preferred and usually closer to the Italian meaning.

December 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/DominikKur6

Sempre ho sbagliato quando ho detto: "ho sapevo"?

October 14, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

'ho sapevo' is incorrect. you need the past participle 'saputo' with an auxiliary verb. 'Sapevo' is the simple past.

October 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/DominikKur6

Allora posso dire "sapevo" oppure "ho saputo" :) Grazie mille

October 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Davvero! Grazie - non l'ho sapevo. Sbagliando s'impara!

October 15, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Wanhm

What's the difference between 'knew the wedding' and 'knew of the wedding'? DL rejects the former.

January 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

To be honest, "knew the wedding" doesn't make sense. Wedding would be a direct object which it isn't. One knows OF something, that's why "del" is needed.

January 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Wanhm

Thanks.

January 6, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Lng52-._

How about the following: "Ho scoperto circa il matrimonio".

June 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/hudnut217

Circa is an adverb meaning about, yes, but used like "approximately". That wouldn't really work here - I discovered approximately the wedding/marriage. About used as a preposition is needed. Hence, "del" - I knew about the wedding/marriage.

January 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/illeionathan

Why is "ho" used here? Doesn't the -uto part of "saputo" cover the "I have" part?

December 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

No. Saputo is the past participle of the verb sapere. Ho is the auxiliary verb that means 'have.' You can't use saputo alone without it.

December 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/fleeny

sounds as it you have been keeping some quite important things from me about your personal life ...... ?

September 6, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Ella_Wren

Oh, snap!

December 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Maggie314

Could "I knew" or "I have known about your wedding" work here, too?

February 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

Maggie: I believe so, but not being a native I'd leave that up to someone more knowledgeable.

February 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/SeanBaker1973

"I have learned of your wedding." was accepted 25.05.2017.

May 25, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tony61164

I knew about your wedding was marked right.

June 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Germanlehrerlsu

tony, I agree w/ you that it sould be accepted. Out of context I don't know how anyone could say that 'sapere' here don't mean to 'know' vs to 'find out'.

June 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/RichardWil528737

"I knew about your marriage" was marked as correct!

September 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/IsolaCiao

That's not the meaning of the Italian, though, for future reference.

December 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Tommy556270

Why cant past tense?

March 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/lynettemcw

There are a few exceptions when tenses differ between the languages, but as a general rule Duo wants you to copy the tense used. Since this is present perfect in Spanish, the English present perfect is required.

March 8, 2019
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