"Deg"

Translation:Ten

February 18, 2016

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

In Cumbrian - my dialect of English - number 10 is 'dick'. I assume that they are related? Some of the other numbers seem similar as well...

Here are the Cumbrian numerals:

yan, tyan, tethera, methera, pimp, sethera, lethera, hovera, dovera, dick.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

At least some of those numbers are from a Brythonic language - depending on how long ago the words were borrowed (or how old they are, if they are remainders from when people still spoke Celtic and then started using English for most purposes), there may not have been separate Welsh, Cornish, etc. languages so it was from their common ancestor.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera .

Do you use those numbers regularly in your English speech? I thought they were restricted to counting sheep.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

Yeah, I always thought that the words 'Cumbria' and 'Cymru' came from the same root origin, and they both meant 'land of the Welsh'. Not usre if this is just a myth though.

It's normal to completely replace 'one' with 'yan', e.g. 'Is anyyan gaan t'this party?' - 'Is anyone going to this party?'

I use 'yan, tyan, tethera', and after that I go back to English numerals. But I know people that would count to 'dick' before reverting back to English. I've never known anybody to use numbers higher than dick, I'm guessing that it works in the same way as Welsh though?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I think "Cymru" is more like "land of the compatriots" or something like that than specifically "Welsh" - see e.g. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Cymric

From what I understand from the Wikipedia article, "yan" is pure English, and simply another descendant of the word that became "one" in standard written English -- the ā of ān "broke" into "ya" or "ye" not only in "yan" but also e.g. in "hyem, hyam" for "home" (from "hām").

Have a look at the Wikipedia article - it compares various "yan, tan, tethera" type sequences found in English-speaking areas with Welsh, Cornish, and some others.

There are similarities (such as "fifteen" being "pymtheg" in Welsh and often something like "bumfit" in the rhymes, and then counting on from there as "one-one-fifteen" etc.), but also differences (e.g. "deunaw" = "two-nines" in Welsh but usually "three-on-fifteen" in the counting thymes).

Apparently, such counts do not go over twenty (shepherds keeping track of the number of full score in other ways, such as putting stones into one's pocket or moving one's thumb from one mark in their staff to the next), but Welsh of course has words for higher numbers as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

ok that's interesting, I didn't never know that 'yam' was etymologically related to 'home'. I thought that the words came from different roots. Yeah, I'll have to ask my grandparents how they count, or how people counted 'back in the day'. Cos there must have been a system. I know we're 'simple country folk' but I'm pretty sure Cumbrians had a need to count above 10!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoelGoetowski

"Cumbria" and "Cymru" are indeed etymologically related. In fact, the Cambrian Era of history was so named because the fossils of dinosaurs from that time were dug up in Wales.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

But yeah you're right, in most parts of Cumbria the numbers have completely died out (except 'yan'). But in my valley the dialect is still quiet strong compared to other areas.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

May I ask which place that is?

From your words, especially "tyan" and "pimp", the "Borrowdale" numbers in the Wikipedia article seem closest.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

Aye, ars live a far end o' borradale. (Yeah I live at the far end of Borrowdale valley) : P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

Can we learn this somehow???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

You should try to document it before does, after it's gone it won't be coming back. Make a video blog, record some stories, poetry even.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian_dialect#Dialect_Words - this article has a few good examples of Cumbrian, but a lot of the words are region-specific, i.e. I would never say some of these words. Sometimes words change from valley to valley. Some of the other words are just wrong. Like maybe my grandma says them, but nobody really says them anymore. So don't trust everything in that article!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

All the more reason to, ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

haha yous wanna scower our dialect? Nayyan'd wanna learn this yan s'vanna died. (You want to learn my dialect? Nobody would want to learn this one. It's almost dead.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

haha nahh don't like public speaking!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

I know that in a lot of native American languages, people can only count up to three. So you'll go up to the kids and be like, "how do you say four?" "Cuatro!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

Haha we can count higher than three! We have a proper number system, I just make a concious effort not to use it above 3. yan, tyan, tethera doesn't sound weird in my speech, but any number higher than that would. I dont know why, I think it's just cultural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

Why is three the limit? For some reason things are always in threes... Three flavours, three colours, three pokemon evolutions. Three examples thereof, xD

How do you say first second third etc?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samstyan99

yeah I don't know, I think the dialectal way of counting has just died out past then (unless you're really old).

'fust' 'second' 'third'. so nah don't really have no proper dialect words for ordinal numbers that I know of.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anime_Cricket

No its true!! I believe everything tbh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rumactree

Thanks for this! My Nain taught me these numbers when I was little (un ar ddeg, dauddeg, tri ar ddeg, etc, pymddeg, deunaw, ugain, etc can’t remember it all very well, wish I could, lots of poetry in the language she taught me too). She was sheep farming in the mountains of Gwynedd though so maybe not surprising.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heysoos1

Can you also say un deg?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ibisc

Usually only with numbers such as un deg un (11); un deg tri (13) and so on. If you wanted to say 'ten cars' it would just be deg car.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngeCelte.g10

I can't believe how numbers are easy. I wonder if there is a catch... :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ibisc

There is! It is called the 'traditional' or 'vigesimal' system, rather as in the French numbering system. A lot of people, especially older people, still use it for money and age, for example. If Duo doesn't mention it, you can ignore it for now...

(Or you could have a quick look here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_numerals)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ibisc

Oh yes - dates and times, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoelGoetowski

"Can you dig it?" is a phrase that was popular in the '70s, and it basically translates to "Do you understand?"

ex. Life's a ditch, man. Can you dig it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

Does that really work for "deg" meaning "ten"?

"dig" means "angry" in welsh. https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#cy/en/dig You could have some interesting puns with that.

It would be confusing in Swedish, Danish and Norwegian in which "dig" means the singular, objective form of you (as in the old "thee"). In Chinese "dig" is listed as meaning "empire".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoelGoetowski

The joke was that the Welsh deg sounds similar to the English dig.

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