"I do not know this place yet."

Translation:Nie znam jeszcze tego miejsca.

February 21, 2016

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/IvanGolo

Why it cannot be "Nie znam tego miejsca jeszcze"?

February 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
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  • 1323

Because this is an unnatural, awkward word order in Polish. In Polish "jeszcze" [yet] and other adverbs are placed close to the verb, not at the end of phrase, as it is in English.

February 21, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/tedholmes76

What about placing "jeszcze" before the verb? I got it wrong by saying, Nie jeszcze znam..."

April 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
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  • 1323

It is wrong not because of "jeszcze" - but because of lack of double negation. The correct answer would be "Nie, jeszcze nie znam tego miejsca" or shorter "Jeszcze nie znam tego miejsca". Generally, the word "nie" has to directly precede the verb, but aso may appear once again in the beginning of the sentence, as an interjection (exactly as no and not - Polish "nie" covers the meaning of both of them).

Polish grammar "likes" negation very much, so it is added to the sentence at "almost every step" of creation of the negative phrase. Therefore, in Polish there are phrases with single and double negation, or triple negation, and even can be with quadruple negation. Often a Polish phrase expressing negation requires the usage of the word "nie" + antonym of the subject in question.

The reason is that the negation pronouns associated with negative sentences, like "nic" [nothing], "nikt" [nobody], "żaden/żadna/żadne" [none or no one], "nigdy" [never], etc - they can work alone only if they do not go with a verb. If there is a verb - the verb also has to be negated. See some samples:

Single negation - used only when you want to express the shortest way possible:

  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nie. = Have you ever been to London? -- No.
  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nigdy. = Have you ever been to London? -- Never.
  • Czy znasz to słowo? -- Nie. = Do you know this word? -- No.
  • Czy znasz to słowo? -- Nie znam. = Do you know this word? -- I don't know.

Double negation - a typical one.

  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nie, nie byłem. = Have you ever been to London? -- No, I haven't.
  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nigdy nie byłem. = _ Have you ever been to London? -- I have never been._
  • Czy znasz to słowo? -- Nie, nie znam. = Do you know this word? -- No, I don't know.

Triple negation - an extended typical, adding some emotion

  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nie, nigdy nie byłem. = Have you ever been to London? -- No, I have never been.
  • Czy znasz to słowo? -- Nie, w ogóle nie znam. = Do you know this word? -- No, I don't know even a bit; No, I don't know at all.

Quadruple negation - expresing annoyance, irritation

  • Czy byłeś kiedyś w Londynie? -- Nie, nigdy nie byłem w żadnym Londynie. = Have you ever been to London? -- No, I have never been to any London.
  • Czy znasz to słowo? -- Nie, w ogóle nie znam żadnego. = Do you know this word? -- No, I don't know even a bit of any.

This causes some funny nuances. If there is a question: Czy zrobiłeś wszystko? - Have you done everything?, the answer could be:

  • Nie zrobiłem wszystkiego = I have not done everything (but however I have done some part of it).
  • Nie zrobiłem niczego. = I have not done anything.

If you translate the sentence by Terence "Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum ❤❤❤❤" (I am human, and nothing of that which is human is alien to me.), in Polish it goes like that: "Człowiekiem jestem i nic co ludzkie, nie jest mi obce."

You may be also interested to listen to prof. Jerzy Bralczyk (he is one of the most known specialists in Polish language, and a very warm person, who explains brilliantly the nuances of the language and replies to many letters that people write to him, asking questions about Polish.)

Or you may look into PWN Language Guide: podwójna negacja

BTW, do you think that playing with negation using antonyms is complicated? Yes, it may be, even for Poles. There are even some badly educated journalist, who want to seem eloquent, but instead they fall into ridiculousness when they say for example "Nie mam jakiejkolwiek wiedzy na ten temat" = I have no undefined knowledge on that subject (what means that the possessed knowledge is rather deep and well defined) - while they should say "Nie mam żadnej wiedzy na ten temat" = I have no knowledge whatsoever on that subject or "Nie mam jakiejkolwiek choćby wiedzy na ten temat" = I have not even slightest knowledge on that subject.

April 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/tedholmes76

Fantastic. Thanks for the link to listen to Professor Bralczyk.

April 2, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/samrooney

hi, i used juz instead of jeszcze and it was marked wrong, are they not synonyms?

October 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
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  • 1323

No, they are not. They are brothers like "something" and "anything" (or better "yet" and "still"), but they are used different way.

If you wrote "Nie znam już tego miejsca" - that means "I do not know this place already" (I have known this place before, but not anymore).

October 26, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/MarjanvanK

why cannot you use < już >

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
Mod
  • 1323

The adverbs "już" and "jeszcze" are not interchangeable in Polish, and to make it even more complicated, they are used in a different way than "yet", "still" and "already" are used in English.

JUŻ

  • "already" in affirmative expressions referring to actions or situations that are completed

    He already knows the truth = On już zna prawdę.
    I've already done that. = Już to zrobiłem.

  • "already" when expressing surprise with a question

    Is it really nighttime already? = Czy naprawdę już jest noc?
    Has he already done that? = Czyżby onjuż to zrobił?

  • "yet" in questions without negation (see also "jeszcze" below)

    Has he arrived yet? = Czy on już przyjechał?

  • "any" in 2 meanings

    • meaning "a little bit" in questions

      Are you feeling any better? = Czy już czujesz się trochę lepiej?

    • meaning "not a bit" in negative statements

      I can't walk any faster. = Nie mogę iść już szybciej.

  • "any more" in negative statements

    We don't have any more coffee. = Nie mamy już kawy.

JESZCZE

  • "yet" in negative statements

    I have not done that yet. = Jeszcze tego nie zrobiłem.

  • "yet" in questions including negation

    Don't you get it yet? = Czy jeszcze tego nie rozumiesz?
    Hasn't he done that yet? = Czy on jeszcze tego nie zrobił?

  • "yet" with adjectives to express higher degree of something

    The party will be yet bigger. = Impreza będzie jeszcze większa.
    Her new haircut made her yet more beautiful. = Jej nowa fryzura uczyniła ją jeszcze piękniejszą.

  • "still" in questions about expectations

    Are you still waiting? = Czy jeszcze czekasz?

  • "any more" in questions

    Do you want any more ice cream? = Czy chcesz jeszcze lodów?

  • "else" in expressions like "anything else"

    "Clean your room, wash the dishes..." -- "Anything else?" = "Posprzątaj swój pokój, umyj naczynia ..." -- "Coś jeszcze?"

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MarjanvanK

Thank you very much for all the examples. it's much clearer to me now.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mirjamko87

Would it be awkward or incorrect to say "nie jeszcze znam tego miejsca?" Or would it just get a slightly different meaning? "Nie znam jeszcze lego miejsca" = I do not know this place yet. (therefore, the most correct way of translating this sentence) But "Nie jeszcze znam tego miejsca" means basically the same thing, but with more emphasis on jeszcze/yet (by bringing it forward in the sentence), as in, "i don't Yet know this place, but will soon find out" or something like that? Sorry, maybe I'm making it way too complicated for myself. and confusing for others, reading this. But I heard about how putting a word closer to the beginning of a sentence in Polish, puts more emphasis on that word, and I wondered if that could be the case with a sentence like this, or that "Nie jeszcze znam tego miejsca' would just sound wrong no matter what you're trying to say?

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mirjamko87

Never mind. Sorry. I see that it's already been answered :)

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mirjamko87

I think I've figured it out: if wanted to do my thing of putting more emphasize on "jeszcze/yet" I should say: "Jeszcze nie znam tego miejsca" ? and not "Nie znam jeszcze tego miejsca"

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
Mod
  • 1323

Both are correct. You only need to remember that negation hast to precede the word that it negates (whether it is a verb, noun or adjective - the first is evident, other two are sometimes tricky).

  • Jeszcze nie znam tego miejsca - puts a bit more emphasis on "jeszcze".
  • Nie znam jeszcze tego miejsca - puts a bit more emphasis on "nie znam".

The difference is subtle, because the strongest emphasis is at the end of the phrase, anyhow - the first word in the phrase is secondary emphasis, so to say. But both the above samples have neutral word order: "the place" is the new information, so belongs to the end of the phrase.

If you really want to make a difference in the emphasis, you should quit the neutral word order and say rather, respectively:

  • Nie znam tego miejsca jeszcze - emphasis on "jeszcze".
  • Jeszcze tego miejsca nie znam - emphasis on "nie znam".

And of course, a lot depends on intonation...

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Isaac444706

Miescja isn't female substantive? Why TEGO and not TEN?

January 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/br0d4
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  • 1323

The form "miejsca" is singular Genitive - Nominative form is "miejsce" and the word has neuter gender. Full declension table: "miejsce". And "tego" is also Genitive of "ten" when used with male or neuter nouns.

January 9, 2019
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