"Nasza ryba nosi koszulę."
Translation:Our fish wears a shirt.
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I do find duolingo fustrating! We should be learning things like what is your name/where do you live/how are you...?... but a month or so into the course and I can tell you that the fish wears a shirt and that ducks like cookies, okay maybe good for learning vocabulary but completely useless statements if I want to talk to someone!! Animals should have come much later in the course! Surely it would be far better to be able to say My father/mother/brother/sister likes bread...?!? Sigh!
What good is it being able to learn and say "what is your name, how are you?" etc?
You will hardly understand their responses other than maybe "dobrze" "dzięki" or a few other very simple adjectives.
The conversation will NOT flow on from that at all.
If that is all you require, then a few pleasantries are easy to learn. (A 3-minute youtube video will suffice and there are plenty of them!)
However, if your real aim is to go further than "cześć, jak się masz, dobrze" and be able to hold a simple non-robotic conversation, then it is impossible to memorise all your possible feelings and combinations by rote. You will need to understand grammatical structure, and then once the structure is in place, expand your vocabulary to create different shades of conversation. Vocab increases gradually over time but it will only STICK in memory if it falls into sentences. And for sentences, grammatical structure is important.
The problem however is that it is not possible to learn grammatical structure without using some vocab (sure it could be learned by using x,y,z but it's not the same)
So some pronouns, some nouns, some verbs, some adjectives are definitely required. Possesive pronoun: Nasza. Noun: Fish. Verb: nosi. Adjective: zielona.... Etc etc
Now we can use that 'useless' vocab to start learning how to decline nouns, conjugate verbs, use ten/ta/to/ci/te etc etc etc. Or how to negate actions etc.
I wouldnt care if the example was Your red car does not like to eat my green shirt with this angry book
The point is the grammar and its rules start to stick.
Later when more vocab is learnt we will know where to put it and the new vocab will then stick in memory much much easier ("use it or lose it" principle) And repetitive questions like "why is pomidor now pomidora" etc will start to answer themselves. Otherwise that 'negative accusative becomes genetive' etc will be asked on EVERY NEW NOUN you learn. (?!?!?!)
Surely you didnt think that the course designers are so brain-dead that they genuinely were of the view that "my fish wears a shirt" was a useful phrase.
I agree with some of your points, however we all have our reasons for learning languages. Mine is for fun, I still haven't learned all the cases properly as they make my head hurt, so many exceptions with new words so it's trial and error as to whether it's psa pies psem, zla zle zly and so on in a sentence until one day it clicks...
I had a rant on another lesson about how we can talk about having a fridge delivered and the contents of a house but still can't introduce ourselves or ask someone what their name is. Other languages have these basic concepts in the very first lessons so Polish is a strange one. For example one of the first lessons in Chinese is "Hello, how are you?" "What is your name"?
Personally I think it comes from travelling to various countries on city breaks and wanting to learn the basics as a tourist and then adding to that. I don't need to talk about fish wearing shirts if I'm in a cafe in Krakow square or Dubrovnik. I think that people learning English as a foreign language would much prefer the pleasantries at the start in order to communicate with people in everyday situations. I might have a fridge delivered every 5 years or so... xx
Ok. I am glad you agree with some of my points. :)
Also, let me say that I fully understand what you say about everyone having different reasons for learning a language (yours is for fun)
However, (and being careful not to repeat my entire previous comment to you haha) the basic exchange of pleasatries which u refer to, and which you would like to have, are much better learnt via simple youtube videos (3 minute conversation starters, through to longer 20 minute videos)
This is not me telling you to "look elsewhere". Please don't misunderstand. I'm just saying that different tools serve different purposes and your specific goal will be better by served by that method. Those videos don't teach grammar but they do teach the basics (ie when visiting a new city, ordering in restaurant, asking directions to the train station etc) and they also teach pronunciation.
No grammar is taught in those, and it's all taught by the "repeat after me" method.
But I would warn against one thing, that the converstion will likely only flow a few steps and you couldnt possibly anticipate the other person's responses and respond to them from memorised phrases (eg. Jak sie masz? Dobrze, a ty? Nie dobrze, ponieważ jestem bardzo zmęczony) or something like that... You wont really be able to respond to that unexpected phrase.
But of course, as you say, if it's just for fun, the person in front will know you're a learner and won't really expect you to get into a deeper conversation. So I guess it's ok.
One last thing which (I think) you continue to misunderstand is this... You said at the end of your comment that you will need to order a fridge once every 5 years. Haha. I am sure that the creators of this course are not teaching that phrase for you being able to order a fridge. I doubt that they expect that one day when you need to order a fridge you will search your memory bank and come up with that phrase haha. They are examples to learn verbs and grammar and which verbs take which cases etc. Of course the vocab which we pick up along the way may be helpful, but it's about the grammar really.
Anyway, am really sorry if my previous comment came across as passive-aggressive. (It did to me when I re-read it lol) But your comment was the last in a looooong line of people complaining about things which are easily found on the internet. So I just ranted back.
Hope u enjoy your learning, and your travels.
Would be funny though if in that cafe in Krakow you hear the owner complaining about his old broken fridge! "Aha!!!!" ;-P
Thank you for the kind words. We are all learning together and it's lovely that there are so many supportive people on these courses. I'd also like to thank you for the apology, it shows good character, and I'm also sorry if I upset you.
I do think that certain words in this course like delivering and producing don't need to be learned in the earliest parts of a language as we probably wouldn't be likely to use them and there are much more useful words to be learned earlier on... I do understand your comments about learning the cases and yes I could learn the basic greetings elsewhere but had hoped I would learn them here and then progress onto longer sentences and questions...
I read somewhere on here that Jak sie masz was only used by foreigners (comment please Jellei?) and not Polish people but I'm not sure if that's true, I know Borat says it ;)
I see a few Polish people in everyday life and I still can't talk to them yet so I hope you'll understand my frustration. I've been learning Chinese for about the same time as Polish and can say much more about myself and ask a lot more about people and situations in that language. I completely understand what you are saying and thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts and feelings. :) I really need to learn how to say "my shark likes custard" and "these aren't the droids you're looking for" when I have that fridge delivered... ;) xx
No problem. :)
I too have heard that asking someone "jak się masz" is uncommon as not used as a passing comment. Apparently its only asked if you genuinely ARE asking how they are? (Maybe it's more serious in Polish whereas in English we just use it as a conversation starter or sometimes even just in place 'Hi')
But having heard that, I STILL say 'jak się masz' to people and they DO respond without thinking I'm asking them way too much personal info.
But maybe they are just making an allowance for me as they can notice Im learning.
Maybe a native speaker asking a random stranger "jak się masz" would be considered weirder than a learner asking it.
Another one Ive heard is 'co tam?'
I think that is the equivalent of "what's up" or "what's going on" but maybe we can only use that with friends? Not sure
Well, we do have some more polite equivalents... "Co [do/u] [diabła/licha/diaska]?!"
"Co [do/u] diabła?!" is like "What the devil?! (Nominative: diabeł)
"licho" is rather a dated word, that may be some kind of a demon bringing misfortune, or it can be the devil
I have no clue what actually "do diaska" means, it is just used like that. Maybe it's more an expression of anger though...
To summarise Jellei's comprehensive answer to this popular question:
Polish has three closely-related verbs:
- nosić: to wear; to carry
- mieć na sobie: to be wearing (lit. "to have on oneself" right now)
- nieść: to be carrying
Polish treats to wear | to be wearing (Present Simple | Present Continuous) as a Verb of Motion, fewer than ten Polish verbs that actually distinguish between the Present Simple | Present Continuous) aspects. So wearing is wrong here: it's the correct translation of ma na sobie (not officially taught on this course).
[20 Feb 2019 08:56 UTC, ed. 20 Jun 12:03 UTC]
I think there's a mistake with this phrase - I was given "Nasza ryba nosi koszulę" to translate and the words I had the option to piece it together from were "duck" "a" "shirt" "Our" "wearing" "fish" "is" "dinner". I remembered from the clothing section that "nosi" definitely does not mean "is wearing" but rather "wears". I selected the word in the question and the pop-up confirms "NOT 'is wearing'" but when I submitted "our fish is wearing a shirt" as the closest option, it wad marked correct. So now I don't know if I'm confused or the programming is!
Does this help?
As far as I know, "is wearing" is never accepted, although there are moves afoot to allow it, along with its Polish equivalent, which is a different verb.