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- "Mangi caramelle oppure bisco…
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"Oppure" is used here to clarify that the question is NOT asking "Are these things you eat: candies, cookies?" but instead asking "You may have one: candies or cookies." "Or" has many meanings and "oppure" means the "exclusionary or" - when "oppure" is used instead of "o", you are clarifying that only one of the options given is allowed.
So a good way to remember it is: "oppure" is more like "as opposed to", which makes the options mutually exclusive (but don't write "as opposed to" as you'd probably be marked wrong - just a way of remembering.)
this is such a succinct and helpful distinction that I'm giving you a lingot (the first one I have given away)
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It is a reward for a good explanation ( or comment you enjoy) There is a gray "give lingot' choice below the comment.
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Except the "instead of biscuits" was marked wrong, which is the usual way of saying "opposed to"
Well "instead of" implies that the latter option is the default, to be replaced by the former, whereas "opposed to" is more neutral
As a programmer, that summed it up nicely for me. Thanks, and have a lingot.
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tl;dr: it's a nerdy reference to nerdy stuff for nerdy people like nerdy me.
Essentially, the commentors above are making a reference to 'formal logic', a field concerned with either understanding or creating systems by which one can reason about statements of truth and statements of falsehood. Programmers have made use of formal logic as the basis for the languages by which they communicate with computers.
'OR' and 'XOR' signify a relationship between two statements, statements which one might call 'P' and 'Q' for convenience and abstraction.
P OR Q is a true statement in three cases: when P is true and Q is false, when Q is true and P is false, and when both P and Q are true. P OR Q is a false statement in only one case: when both P and Q are false.
P XOR Q is a true statement in only two cases: when P is true and Q is false, and when Q is true and P is false. P XOR Q is a false statement in two cases: when both P and Q are true, and when both P and Q are false.
All that to say, 'o' in Italian behaves similarly (but not the same) to an 'OR' operator in Western formal logic, and 'oppure' in Italian behaves similarly (but not the same) to an 'XOR' operator in Western formal logic.
Exclusive or. For example "A XOR B" would mean "A or B but not both A and B".
I think i figured out a way to memmorize it. If the question could be answered with "yes", you should use "o". Ex. " Bevi la birra o il vino?" "Sì."
If the asker wants the question to be answered by repeating one of the options, he/she should use oppure. "Bevi la birra oppure il vino?" "Il vino"
Am i right about this, or are there times this wouldn't work?
Like in English we say, " you can have one or the other" is that right.
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Самое лучшее обяснение для меня было, что "opure" - это когда надо выбрать только что-то одно, а "o" - может быть и то и другое.
I think the correct translation in English would be "Do you eat candy or cookies?" "Rather" with the Present Tense sounds odd. ( > "WOULD you rather eat candy or cookies?" Of course, that means something else).
Actually, we would be more likely to say ' wiould you prefer sweets or biscuits?' Not being Yanks, of course
Ah yes. Sadly we are forced to call biscuits "cookies" and sweets "candy" (not "candies", mind) so I get my revenge by vowing never to enter another Starbuck's.
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Hahahahahahaha! That's another good reason then, in addition to the tasteless coffee, and the price, and the ridiculous prepayment card scheme with rewards that only last a week or two... but other than that, yay Starbucks ;o)
Although Duolingo accepts answers in British English, it has chosen American English as its standard.
American English is, however, as rich and diverse as that of the motherland. Unfortunately for those of the 'correct' persuasion, language is elastic and prone to change and variety. Not unlike life itself.
As a software engineer, my brain just processes oppure as XOR. As an American, I find it refreshing to have an exclusive or.
I taught philosophy - which included courses in symbolic logic - in university and I know all about the inclusive and the exclusive 'or'. And, I hope, so do my students. But if anyone is puzzled by this because they are neither software engineers or students of formal logic,i can help!
I wrote "do you rather eat candy or cookies" as an answer, but it said I was wrong. :P Never heard anyone speaking "do you eat candy or rather cookies", although I believe both forms are gramatically correct.
It doesn't mean "do you rather" or "would you rather" in the sense of "do/would you prefer," but "or rather," simply adding emphasis to "or." You could also, as TiagoMoita notes, leave out "rather" altogether.
in English we don't normally use candy and cookies apart from brands so why does this not translate as sweets and biscuits??
@molierose524 If "sweets and biscuits" was not accepted report it. Duo accepts both British English and American English.
In the US, I have never heard the expression, "Do you eat candies, or rather cookies?" That language seems very stilted. My translation, "Do you eat candies rather than cookies?" was not accepted, but it seems more like natural speech.
I think Duo's translation is fine, even though it is not what we normally say. The point here is to understand the Italian, and Duo's translation allows us to do that.
I agree. "Do you eat candies rather than cookies?" sounds better than Duolingo's answer, and should be accepted.
"Caramelle" is plural, but my translation of "candies" was marked wrong and corrected to "candy." Perchè?
In American English, we use "candy" almost exclusively for the singular and the plural. If you are talking about specific numbers, you'd usually say "3 pieces of candy" instead of "3 candies". A store would have "many kinds of candy". You CAN use the word candies, but we don't. It would be grammatical, however, so I'm not sure why DL counted as wrong.
Would, "Would you rather have candies or cookies" be an acceptable translation?"
Definitely "would you rather eat candies or cookies", "have" would depend on context, because it could imply possession instead of eating.
I find this translation awkward. As a native English speaker I would say: Do you eat candy rather than cookies?
Courses teaching British English-Amercian English-Australian English would be very instructive.
"Sweet' is English for 'candy and biscuit is English for cookie so my answer was correct!
The translation I saw said Do you eat sweets or rather biscuits?. This is not good English. It would be more grammatical to say Do you eat sweets rather than biscuits.
Biscuits and cookies are the same thing! Why is it wrong this time when I've had "biscuits" accepted previously?
Biscuits is in the system, so either it's a glitch or you had some other problem with your sentence.
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Both are correct and can be used interchangeably, however "oppure" might be considered more formal than just "o".
I am getting the feeling that in Italian, one may use "oppure" when offering a choice to someone? Is that correct?
I agree that we would probably say "Do you prefer sweets or biscuits?", or "Would you prefer sweets or biscuits?" in English
I would say rather than is an acceptable and more likely phrase in American English.
can you say, "do you eat candy rather than cookies?" it was counted wrong since I put than in the sentence
Why does it only accept 'or rather' and not that as well as 'or' by itself? This is frustrating when it tells me the translation can be either and it only accepts one.
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Oppure strictly means "or rather" which in English (and I assume Italian) has a subtly different meaning than simply "or" by putting a greater emphasis on one's actual preference; so in this instance the ideal translation would be: "would you rather eat sweets or biscuits" . As to the translation options duolingo provides per word these are just suggestions on which you have to make a judgment and context call ( and sometimes they can be, especially as the lessons progress, wackily way outside the ballpark)
This is very unwieldy English. We'd say 'do you eat sweets rather than biscuits' but that gets marked wrong.
caramelle is the Italian word for sweets in general. They could be wine gums, or jelly babies, or caramels or toffees or...
In Lancashire, the word "toffees" is used to mean any sort of sweets. I came across as very rude just after I moved up there and was eating from a bag of sweets (possibly Dolly Mixtures) when someone asked of he could have one of my toffees. I stood there, bag in hand, and told him I didn't have any - because I to my understanding, I really didn't have any toffees.
He pointed to the bag and said "What are those then?" "Dolly Mixtures. Would you like one?"
I was happy to share - I just didn't know of the change in terminology in a different part of the country.
Do you eat candies rather than cookies? Can an Italian give me a distinction in how you would say this?
Interesting! So the Italian language has a simple way to put exclusive 'or' in a question, whereas I can't see a nice way to do that in English (same in German). If it is not a question one can say "either..or" in English
The statement is about choosing candies or cookies in general. If you are speaking of a particular cookie or candy, then the definite article is needed.
Mangio biscotti oppure caramelle. I eat cookies or candies. Mangio i biscotti verdi oppure le caramelle rosse. I eat the green cookies or the red candies.
"Do you eat biscuits or sweets?" is a correct translation in England... i.e., where English comes from
"Do you eat caramels or biscuits?" Is signaled as wrong. What's wrong with this translation?
Thanks for the clarification on "o" and "oppure". It's the difference between "You can have the cheap ticket if you are under 18 or a full-time student" and "He is alive or dead" In the first case, you can be both: in the second, you cannot be.
I believe that "oppure" could be more like the English "either ... or," that is the exclusive "or." If "o" were used, maybe someone could reply that they wanted both. (Very mathematical)
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That all looks fine until you get to the exercise which asks you to translate "si o no" which obviously are exclusive (at least until someone says "well, yes and no..." :+)
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Am I the only one hearing "biscottini" in the normal tempo text? Listened to it repeatedly but I can only hear it this way... Only the slow version says properly. Of course biscottini are not accepted
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Does caramelle have singular? I mean, it's obviously plural, thus translation 'candy' should be 'candies' instead. Luckily, I wasn't offered such an answer...
Singular would be “una caramella” (a piece of candy). But English uses “candy” (singular) for many pieces of candy together as well. You could also write “candies” here and it should be accepted, though.
Is it me or up until this point "caramelle" has been ONLY accepted as plural "candies". I literally was searching for "candies" because I was convinced they'd say I got it wrong. But now all of a sudden it is ok, whereas before, "caramella" was singular, and "caramelle" was plural. I'm not going crazy am I?
I thought caramelle plural means candies and caramella single means candy... But my answer candies was marked wrong
Ugh! Being English I hate these Americanisms. 'Sweets' not 'Candy' and 'Biscuits' not 'Cookies'!
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I may be wrong, but I see their use of "candy" as a generic plural since it doesn't refer to a specific kind or an exact measurement ... a box of Godiva chocolates or a bowl of lemon drops would be more aptly called "candies", as would a description involving a known quantity such as 'twelve candies remain' ... I'm not far enough along in the Italian course to know whether this would always hold true, but I wonder too if "versus" instead of "rather" may help to differentiate the choice of "or" usages; plus I wonder about the call for definitive vs speculative answers (for instance, the question "is it a bear or a lion" supports a concrete answer whereas "do you like lions or bears" supports only one's opinion). Am I totally off my lolly here, or is there a bit of bun to this biscuit theory, haha ... do weigh in either way?!?!?
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In English, candy can be both singular or plural ... in general context, with no specific quantity or countable amount, we use "candy"; and in reference to countable amounts or specific kinds we say "candies". Example ... we walk into a "candy" store, and amidst all of that "candy" they sell, your eye goes straight to your favorite and you exclaim "I want some of these candies"; so you tell the clerk, "I'd like a pound of these candies, please".
There's a little confusion here about exclusive or inclusive "or" Exclusive to be clear needs and "either"
For the native English amongst us, please accept sweets for candy, and biscuits for cookies. I suppose oppure could also be translated as "either/or".
'Candy' is US English. UK English would be 'sweets' or more accurately in this case, 'toffee'
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In other questions, lollies and biscuits were accepted, but suddenly they aren't for this one only. Why?
Given that caramelle directly translates as "candies" in a translation app, why was it marked wrong in favour of "candy"?
I don't really understand why folks are objecting to the "correct" translation of this. It may be a bit awkward to say in everyday English, but the point is to get us practicing "or" from the Italian perspective. Structurally it's the same sentence as "Do you drink tea or coffee" and that sentence is perfectly acceptable. I do wonder, however, if "Mangi... etc" is how it is spoken in everyday Italian. Does anyone know?
Why are definite articles not used prior to "caramelle" and "biscotti"?
Ugh! U am English so object to my 'sweets' and 'biscuits' being marked as incorrect as I would never dream of using the Americanisms!
I think it should be "candies or cookies" NO ? Caramelle is plural ...
I'm not sure about British English, but in the US "candy" is one of those nouns (I forget the term) where the word is both singular and plural. "That's a lot of Halloween candy!" Other examples are "sheep" and "fish." In these three instances, the pluralization of the word ("fishes") is considered old-fashioned formal, almost Biblical, in tone. "Loves and Fishes" for example. So in the US, generally, the word "candies" is not used in daily speech. Again, can't speak for the Brits.
I can think of at least one example in Italian that comes close to this: "verdura." From our Food lesson, I seem to recall that the singular is "la verdura" and the plural is "le verdura." I don't remember seeing "le vedure." Am I remembering this correctly?
