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  5. "È una persona capace."

"È una persona capace."

Translation:She is a capable person.

December 31, 2013

73 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lynnfhoffman

"It is a capable person."? You really can't say that in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sapolion

You are right, duolingo is wrong. You can not refer to people as "it".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

I'm reporting it now (pun intended). Unfortunately I leave a further question because the word is new to me. duo did accept he; however, does the female sounding ending of persona mean that it has to be a female person?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Koolkaren

No, it doesn't have to be a female person. The word "persona" itself is feminine, but it applies to both male and female people. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

oh, that's right kk .. I got my nouns and adjectives mixed up there :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

Yes, for anyone learning English, you should NEVER refer to an identified actual person as 'it'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Tyler..."It" is fine if there's more context. "It is a capable person, who knows how to speak Italian." ...Or whatever. "It" avoids gender stereotyping.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

Yes, that is why I said a real, IDENTIFIED person. You can use it to refer to shadows and unidentified people. For example, 'I can see a shadow, I wonder who it is', or 'someone turned my computer off, I wonder who it was' , but you can never refer to a actual identified person as 'it'. For example you could never say, 'Our new doctor came round to see my wife yesterday, it treated her very well'. Here you would have to use one of 'he', 'she', 'he or she', or 'they', all of which have pros and cons but 'it' can never be used like this.

Just to be clear 'it' is not a way to avoid gender stereotyping in most cases.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Tyler...I see your point and for what "It" is worth, just gave you a lingot! It's precisely these user-exchanges that makes DL a language learning tool I stick with, aside from the practice I get from it. As for the occasional disagreement or controversy that flares up now and then among users, it merely underscores the passion most of us have for foreign languages and our own native languages as well. When that happens, i try to remember what it was Forrest Gump said which went something like " 'It' happens." :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

Germanlehrerlsu, I think we agree, it does depend on context.
What I an doing is making clear the context in which you must NEVER use 'it' and in which it would be grossly insulting to do so.

The context in which you can never use 'it' is any time you are referring to a clearly identified individual person.

It is not a way to avoid gender stereotyping.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

Tyler, my example of a clearer context holds. To have said, "He is a capable person, who speaks Italian," or "She is a capable person, who speaks Italian," would restrict the ability to one or the other gender. Using "it" avoids that gender restriction. Your examples of course are correct, but my point was that in certain wider contexts "it" is perfectly correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jeri123

well we do say, for example, "it's me," when we call someone on the phone. We say, "You're it," to someone when it is their turn to do something. We say, "It's your sister," when calling someone to the telephone. There are endless other examples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

Yes, we do use 'it' like this but the 'it' in these examples does not refer directly to a person but more to an concept or abstraction. For example, in, 'It is your sister', the 'it' refers to 'the person who has just arrived' or 'the person who is knocking at the door'. Once we get to the 'your sister' bit we can no longer use 'it' to refer to this person, who we now know to be your sister. For example 'Who is that at the door?' 'IT is your sister and SHE is in a bad mood'. You cannot replace the 'she' with 'it'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
Mod
  • 2492

In English you refer to people using it all the time.

  • Who's at the door? It's a salesman.
  • What's that shadow in the picture? It's a person.
  • Who's the developer? It's a very skilled person.
  • Or even: Who is it? It's me

In fact one of the things that confuses Italian learning English the most is how you can use it for people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PkFf9D

The third example is not correct. Traditionally you would have said 'He is a very skilled person'. These days when trying to avoid gender stereotypes purple usually use 'they are very skilled' even though in all likelihood only one person is being referenced.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PkFf9D

People (purple people?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PkFf9D

'It is me' is an example of one of the few cases when you can use 'it' for an identifiable person - when referring to yourself as you will not be seen as offending youself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ziggKogg

Look at it as, "He/she is a capable person". "It" is only included because technically it can be an acceptable translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/crystal95u

With context, I'm sure there are exceptions. Off the top of my head, "it" could refer to a movie role, a work position, etc. Don't get stuck when you don't have to. This is too inconsequential for english speakers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rosaca598800

Perché she e non he?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/funnyiloveitaly2

"And the detective said it is a capable person we're looking for"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

As part of a sentence yes. But not on its own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A_Dunham

Why is "they are a capable person" not accepted? It is gender neutral. People are not "it".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

because 'they' is plural and 'a person' is the indefinite singular article, so there is a mismatch.

to avoid the gender issue, I prefer something like, 'that person is capable'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/unabanana

It should have been accepted. Yes, 'they' is plural, but it's used when gender isn't specified. Using 'that' is also right :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nekogaijin

They is often used by someone when s/he does (they do) not know the gender, and you hear it used quite a bit, however grammatically it is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susanelaine7

"They" is commonly used, but it's incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

Not incorrect, even though our grammar teachers may have told us so. Here is one of many articles about the use of "they/their" for one person: http://bit.ly/IH5meu


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

Replying to Macossay. "They" would still maintain the plural verb form (like "you"), even if used as a singular. "They ARE a capable person". We need someone to do this job and, whoever it is, I hope they are a capable person.

And, if you read the article in my earlier quote, the correctness of "they" dates back centuries.

"She kept her head and kicked her shoes off, as everybody ought to do who falls into deep water in their clothes.” C.S. Lewis, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

This example and others can be found in this rather long article on the rightness/not-wrongness of singular "they": https://motivatedgrammar.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/singular-they-and-the-many-reasons-why-its-correct/


[deactivated user]

    A really good article, also with interesting comments.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Macossay

    Sure, if you search long and hard enough, you might find examples of contemporary English speakers saying "They is a person." It will, however, make you sound uneducated. Or, at best, eccentric.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    "They are a capable person" makes absolutely no sense, unless you're referring to someone with multiple personalities. They is plural, person is singular. That's it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johnny99999

    "I saw that someone was on the balcony; clearly, they could not see me."

    Your confidence in your own correctness is misplaced in this instance. I suggest you read the article posted above by CatMcCat - they took the time to find and share the article, so that you might benefit from their effort.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Highwaysta1

    "It is a person? " HE IS!! "It" is for dogs!!!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Highwaysta1: You can't assume it's "HE". It could also be "she." As for it not being "It" see my comments above which suggest "it" would be perfectly correct in a more complete context, e.g. "It is a capable person, who knows how to speak Italian." etc.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dizzee_Ragdoll

    It's fine to use 'it' in certain contexts. E.g. "Who did you get to complete the mission?" "Don't worry, it is a capable person."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Dizzee...For the context you suggest, I totally agree.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Highwaysta1

    He , she or they for people, not "it"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Highwaysta1: "It" here is a 'filler' subject. It's non-specific, gender neutral, and perfectly acceptable. "He" and "She" if singular, "They" if obviously plural might all be preferable if the situation were gender specific, but "it" is absolutely acceptable: "It's a capable person, who knows how to speak a foreign language" is just one example of a situation where you'd want to avoid saying "He's a capable person..." or "She's a capable person..." and so forth.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

    No, it really is not absolutely acceptable. In specific instances where it is qualified, as with your example of 'It's a capable person who knows how to X' yes. But on its own. No, not even a little. Except in a certain SF series where it is the preferred nomenclature for hermaphrodites. People only refer to a person as 'it' if they want to take away their humanity. 'They' is perfectly acceptable however since it is used either for singular or plural. And has done for centuries.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Ariaflame: In the above example, "they" clearly wouldn't work: "They are a capable person"? Your example of science fiction hermaphrodites is frankly ridiculous and I don't know why you'd introduce it in a discussion like this. It's obvious you don't agree, despite acceptance of the special example I used, so let's leave it at that. There's no need to bring in linguistic assaults on humanity, as there is far too much of that in the real world as it is.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

    'They are a capable person' is perfectly good English, the singular they has a long usage. And the SF series I mentioned (Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold) is the only instance that I've seen 'it' being used about a specific person NOT being insulting. When you're talking specific people you don't use 'it'. This has been explained several times in these comments by Tyler.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philinguo

    The pronoun 'it' cannot be used for humans but MUST be used for all animals. Eg: The dog chased its tail/ It is a furry cat.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Phil......Ariaflame & I had a similar exchange/disagreement. I see what you both mean and agree that when taken in isolation/out of context, "it" should not be used to refer to a person -- "he" or "she" obviously when speaking directly about someone who's gender is known; Ariaflame even suggested "they" which frankly I hadn't considered, but especially when contracted to "they're a ... person" works fine. My point was that when a sentence like that above is part of a context, the pronoun "it" is fine -- e.g. It is a capable person...,who knows how to speak Italian. Or "It's a wise person, who knows the value of a foreign language." Etc. Without that qualfier, I would also consider "it' incorrect, but when used as I've suggested I feel it's the most commonly heard option.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/transkter

    Only things can be referred to as it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    transkter: Not so. "It" can simply be a 'filler' subject or "place holder" in the absence of a more specific subject. With this sentence, you could easily imagine someone saying: "It's a capable person, who knows how to learn a foreign language." Use of either "he" or "she" would raise eyebrows in today's gender conscious world-- and legitimately so.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaolaN.Riv1

    It cant be she because it does not say lei


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

    Italians drop out the pronoun more often than not, leaving it up to context to determine which it is. It could be either he or she here, the lei is not required.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hollomagollo

    the normal speed audio seems to say "e una persona" the slow speed audio says "e un persona" which one is correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bostonbreizh

    She is capable ....not okay? really? and 'it' is a capable person is???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    bostonbreizh: I totally agree - even a year later!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peter2108

    Suppose you don't know the person so that sei is not apprpriate. Apparently siete is reserved for more than one person. So we use the "formal" you and say Lei è una persona capace. But Duo marks this wrong. I've never managed to sort this out.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

    I agree. DL is very bad at the formal 'you'. In my limited experience it is still very much used, and appreciated, in Italy.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janeddy

    The meanings which duolingo offers includes "clever" but I was marked wrong for using it! That doesn't seem right to me and is confusing.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Annalinda13

    DL accepted "He is a capable person."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PastelVolcano

    This doesn't make any sense.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Lucy...I completely agree. The only way for it to make any sense would have been to include a clearer context, as e.g. "It is a capable person...who understands how to learn a foreign language." As written though it makes no sense and either "he" or "she" should have been listed as acceptable answers.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

    Germanlehrerlsu, Thanks for the lingot. I agree it is our common interest in language that leads to these interesting discussions.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Prego, ci mancherebbe!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/liz111501

    It is a capable person is wrong. The best way ti say it is " a capable person"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    liz...Unless I'm missing something, what are you saying the difference is between "It is a capable person" and "It is a capable person"???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guntars5

    I believe an earlier comment said that context determines correctness. A person might ask. Who got the job. And... It is a capable person....Would be acceptable.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moromillas

    I'm actually an Aspergian and when people talk about us, it's common to refer to us as "it." It's just normal for people to do that.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beck.F.

    Nowhere that I can see does this sentence actually say 'it' in Italian or even English translation. Even literal word:word translation gives us, 'is a person capable', which, with proper structure forms 'she is a capable person'.

    We know the sentence refers to a female as 'una persona' is feminine and will only change when we introduce a masculine pronoun.

    È is 'is'. There is no 'it' (esso, suo, etc).

    So, what did I miss that y'all are talking about 'it'?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    Beck,F. One of the basics of Italian is that conjugated verbs don't need an explicitly stated subject. That's the situation here. The "It" you're looking for is implicit, understood in the verb form, which in this case could be either 'he, she, it, or you-formal". So e.g. Vai = YOU go; mangio = I eat; parliamo = WE talk, hanno = THEY have, etc. In the case of 3rd person forms, context will usually indicate whether the understood subject is 'he, she, it, or you-formal" Capisci?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/f.formica
    Mod
    • 2492

    Great explanation! Just one more thing regarding "We know the sentence refers to a female as 'una persona' is feminine": nope, not at all. This is why people shouldn't associate grammatical gender with the physical or social one: "la persona" is a person, it can be either gender, "la guardia" (the guard) isn't even a common occupation for a woman, "il giudice" (the judge) can very well be a woman, and so on. The whole sentence agrees with that, so it could have been "lui è una brava persona".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    f.formica: Good to point out and stress! Thanks.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicky4eyes

    Okay...I do not always appreciate the banter in these "discussion" rooms, whereas they tend to veer far from the actual topic. Can some one clearly answer if this sentence is right, or did duo lingo make a mistake?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnneBas

    It is not correct to use "it" for people.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Germanlehrerlsu

    MarcusMaus: "It" as a general introductory subject is fine, especially since it avoids the tricky issue of whether a person in question is a male or female. Ex: "The firm needs a new president and IT should be a person with lots of experience." The alternative is to use "he or she" -- which while widespread in today's culture-- is still awkward. Use of "it" avoids that awkwardness and simply makes for a more direct, less cumbersome sentence.

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