Το Duolingo είναι ο πιο δημοφιλής τρόπος για να μάθεις ξένες γλώσσες σε όλο τον κόσμο. Και το καλύτερο; Είναι 100% δωρεάν!

https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin

Ένα παιχνίδι Scrabble στα Ελληνικά

wchargin
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Καλημέρα! Για ένα μάθημα στο πανεπιστήμιο, πρέπει να αναπτυχθώ ένα παιχνίδι Σκράμπλ (Scrabble) στον υπολογιστή. Αποφάσισα να περιλαμβάνω άλλες γλώσσες από Αγγλικά: ειδικά τα Ισπανικά και τα Ελληνικά! Τότε έπαιξα ένα παιχνίδι στα Ελληνικά. Ήταν πολύ ενδιαφέρον!

Αυτή η εικόνα δείχνει πώς τελείωσε το παιχνίδι (the final state of the board):

The final state of the board

(Εγώ είμαι και οι δύο "Νίκος" και "Σοφία".)

(Πριν από πρόσθεσα όλες τις μικρές λέξεις, φαινόταν σαν αυτό.)

Αυτοί είναι οι λέξεις που χρησιμοποίησα. Τα αστέρια δείχνουν ("indicate?") ότι σκέφτομαι ότι αυτή η λέξη ήταν ειδικά καλή:

  • δω: subjunctive of βλέπω "I see" ("θέλω να το δω")
  • δικό: neuter, singular, nominative form of δικός "own" ("το δικό του καλάθι")
  • να: subjunctive particle
  • ζει: third-person singular of ζω "I live" ("ποιος ζει εδώ;")
  • ζεις: second-person singular of ζω "I live" ("που ζεις εσύ;")
  • γη: earth (singular, nominative)
  • θα: future particle
  • ★ συχνό: "frequent" (neuter, singular, nominative)
  • κι: contracted form of και "and" used before some vowels ("κι ένα από αυτούς")
  • πήγα: first-person singular simple past form of πηγαίνω "I go" ("χθες πήγα σχολείο")
  • ★ έχασα: first-person singular simple past form of χάσω "I lose" ("μόλις έχασα το τρένο επειδή δεν έτρεξα")
  • ★ πτήσης: singular genitive form of πτήσης "flight" ("η αξία της πτήσης")
  • ήταν: third-person singular simple past form of είμαι "I am" ("αυτός ήταν θλιμμένος, αλλά τώρα φαίνεται ευτυχισμένος")
  • ★ τάξη: "group"/"class" (singular, nominative) ("τα ρήματα είναι μία τάξη των λέξεων")
  • μοβ: purple
  • ★ βγείτε: second-person plural subjunctive form of βγαίνω "I enter" ("θέλετε να βγείτε το κάστρο;")
  • μη: form of μην, the negative subjunctive particle ("ουρανό, παρακαλώ μη βρέξει!")
  • άκρη: singular nominative form of self; "edge" ("η ακρή του τραπέζι") (I had to look this one up!)
  • μόνο: "only", "just" ("δημιουργούν μόνο ένα μοντέλο")
  • τυρί: singular accusative form of self; "cheese" ("έφαγα το τυρί")
  • γάτε: singular vocative form of γάτα "cat" ("έλα εδώ, γάτε μου")
  • ★ στυλό: singular nominative form of self; "pen"
  • αν: "if" ("αν δεν κοιμάσαι, θα αποτυγχάνεις")
  • απλό: "simple" (neuter, single, nominative) ("το απλό γκρουπ" ← any math enthusiasts know if that's how to say "simple group"?)
  • οι: "the" (plural, masculine/feminine, accusative) "οι κάλτσες")
  • απ: contracted form of από ("ήρθε απ ένα κουτί")
  • πίσω: "below" ("το πουλί είναι πίσω του δέντρου")
  • πίσο: oh, no! I just realized that I misspelled πίσω "below" :( ah, well.
  • προς: "toward" ("τρέξαμε προς το πάρκο")
  • εδώ: "here" ("υπάρχει εδώ ένα μεγάλο κάστρο")
  • όλο: "all" ("το έφαγα όλο")
  • φαε: imperative form of τρώω "I eat" ("φαε τα λαχανικά σου")
  • τη: form of την used before vowels ("είδα τη φούστα")
  • κόρη: "daughter" (singular, nominative) ("η κόρη του θείου μου")

Για πολύ καιρό προσπάθησα να φτιάχνω "σιωπή" αλλά δεν βρήκε χωρώ :(

Αυτά είναι τα μαθήματα ("lessons?") πως έμαθα:

  • Σχεδόν όλοι οι λέξεις τελειώνουν με α/ε/η/ι/ο/υ/ω, τότε είναι πολύ σημαντικό να αυτά τα γράμματα είναι "ανοιχτά" (να υπάρξει χωρώ γύρο των).
  • Είναι ωραίο ότι υπάρχουν cases και declensions! Π.χ., η τελική "ς" σε "πτήσης."

Τελείωσα το παιχνίδι με ένα "Ψ", ένα "Υ", και ένα "Ν". Τώρα ξέρω ότι έπρεπε να έκανα "ψι" instead of "οι", αλλά δεν ήξερα ότι αυτή ήταν μία λέξη (νόμιζα ότι η ορθογραφία ήταν "ψη", ή "ψυ" σαν "μυ" και "νυ").

Τι σκεφτόσαστε;

Όπως πάντα, παρακαλώ διόρθωνε η γραφή μου!

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https://www.duolingo.com/tigris07

ωραιος , επειδη ειμαι χουβαρδας σου εδωσα 5 lingot

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https://www.duolingo.com/fedra369
fedra369
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Hi there! Great job! Πολύ καλή δουλειά! a small note: ΠΗΥΑ is not a word. I think you meant ΠΗΓΑ like you wrote underneath. Also, what is ΜΕΝΑ; (Like εμένα ίσως; If yes, it's not actually a word, the correct form will be 'μένα) And the color purple is μωβ. Yes, the greek spelling with all the o's and the e's can be tricky..

Και πάλι συγχαρητήρια! :D Πάρε 3 lingots για τη προσπάθεια!

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https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin
wchargin
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Thanks! I did mean πήγα: I suppose, as an anglophone, I'm confused by the similar shapes of the lowercase Greek γ and the capital Latin Y.

I do see "σε μένα" very frequently on Duolingo, though, and I have never seen it with an apostrophe. (Although I have seen απ'.)

Μωβ—darn! :)

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https://www.duolingo.com/ssurprize
ssurprize
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simple group = "απλή ομάδα" in mathematics.

"Τι σκεφτόσαστε;" = "What are you thinking?"
If I want to say "What do you think?" in such a case, when showing something, I usually say "Πώς σου φαίνεται;" / "Πώς σας φαίνεται;"
e.g. Πώς σου φαίνεται το νέο μου καπέλο; What do you think of my new hat?

If by "ψι", "μυ", "νυ" you mean the letters of the alphabet, they are all spelt with "ι", μι, νι, ξι, πι, φι, χι ψι.

I would also write μοβ as μωβ, but because it's a foreign word, there's no one correct spelling, like μπύρα/μπίρα. Μπύρα is more common, but μπίρα is correct, too. So I'd say μωβ is more common, but μοβ is correct, too.

May I add a few more corrections:
Αυτές είναι οι λέξεις που χρησιμοποίησα.
Because "η λέξη - οι λέξεις" is feminine.

βγείτε: second-person plural subjunctive form of βγαίνω, is actually the opposite of "I enter", it means "I exit". ("θέλετε να βγείτε από το κάστρο;" ) It needs the preposition.

"η ακρή του τραπεζιού" genitive of τραπέζι = τραπεζιού

"πίσω από το δέντρο". This is the usual systax for πίσω (πίσω από κάτι = behind something). For below, I might use "υπό" in a few cases, "κάτω από" in most cases.

I enjoyed your post! :D

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https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin
wchargin
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Thank you for all your corrections! I always appreciate your help.

Πώς φαίνεται—okay! One follow-up question: why is there an accent mark even though πως has just one syllable? Are question words always accented (as in Spanish)?

I had assumed that the English names "mu" and "nu" came from μυ and νυ, but apparently not! (I wonder where they did come from!)

Oh, wow—somehow I had always thought that the third-person feminine plural nominative definite article was αυτοί (and that αυτές was just the accusative(/vocative))! Don't know how I missed that until now, but thank you!

Ah—so βγαίνω and μπαίνω are different ("of course they're different!", you think! :))…this must be the source of my confusion! I get these wrong a bunch and keep thinking I'm just misremembering them.

Ευχαριστώ!

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https://www.duolingo.com/ssurprize
ssurprize
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Only the (direct or indirect) question words "πώς" and "πού" are accented, to be differentiated from the conjunction "πως" and "που". There is also difference in the intonation when you read the sentences.
Example:
Μου είπε πώς μαγείρεψε το κοτόπουλο. He told me how he cooked the chicken. (in what manner).
Μου είπε πως μαγείρεψε το κοτόπουλο. He told to me that he cooked the chicken. (the fact that he did it).

Πού θέλεις να φας; Where do you want to eat?
Χαίρομαι που θέλεις να φας μαζί μας. I'm glad that you want to eat with us.

So, your example sentence for "ζεις" in your post, would be "Πού ζεις εσύ;" Where do you live?

;)

The "mu" and "nu" are from a westernised version of Classical Greek, but I don't want to get into that! :P
Here's the Modern Greek alphabet: https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C_%CE%B1%CE%BB%CF%86%CE%AC%CE%B2%CE%B7%CF%84%CE%BF

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https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin
wchargin
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(And βγει also not to be confused with βρει! My goodness. :D)

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https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
D_..
Mod
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Hello again! I'm posting a new comment to allow for more space per line. Since I still need to figure out how to keep the correct numbering along with paragraph spacing I'm spelling numbers out this time. (Great workaround, I know, you can stop clapping! :)

One. This is a comprehensive guide of verb conjugation in Modern Greek, in case you don't have one handy already. Most verbs will fit into what is described there, however, there are (numerous) exceptions, featuring either unique conjugation or missing tenses. Exceptions can be found here. Many of the most frequent and useful verbs are irregular - because, why not?!

"Ανάπτυξη λογισμικού" is fine, but "να αναπτύξω ένα παιχνίδι", while making sense, does not sound as the most obvious choice of words. I'll try to keep this as short as possible so I hope that you don't mind that I won't expand on why I think that. :)

Two. Well, this is very interesting... It is συμπεριλαμβάνω (indicative) - να συμπεριλαμβάνω (subjunctive, present) - να συμπεριλάβω (subjunctive, past) and for that other verb περιλαβαίνω (indicative) - να περιλαβαίνω (subjunctive, present) - να περιλάβω (subjunctive, past). Which creates a clash with περιλαμβάνω, because "περιλάβω" is already taken and means to reprimand. I cannot explain it, I do not know why they would both be the same, but I can assure you that περιλάβω is only used meaning one thing, and that is not "to include"!

Three. I don't think I gave a good explanation, but writing this I'm not sure I can give a better one. I think the point is that τότε cannot be used as a temporal adverb if your time point of reference is missing. It's like saying "after, we'll take a stroll". After what? If you say "Later" it works. A couple of examples to hopefully make it clearer:

Πότε θα πας διακοπές; - Όταν θα είναι καλοκαίρι. Τότε, ο καιρός θα είναι πολύ καλός. (temporal)

Η Μαρία διαβάζει ένα βιβλίο. Όταν το τελειώσει, θα μου πει την ιστορία. Τότε/Έτσι/Άρα/Επομένως θα είναι σαν να το έχω διαβάσει κι εγώ. The difference is that τότε here is either temporal or inferential while the others are only inferential.

Six. Both ειδικά and ιδιαίτερα are adverbs (unless of course they are neuter, plural, nominative or accusative...) They also have adjective forms, ειδικός-ή-ό, ιδιαίτερος-η-ο. While there is some meaning overlap, "ειδικός" means special as in 'specific' and "ιδιαίτερος" means special because it's standing out in a different/quirky kind of way. See how particular means either specific (συγκεκριμένος) or special (ιδιαίτερος). As an adverb ιδιαίτερα can take ειδικά's place in some occasions to mean "especially" but it is its other special meanings that make it the only option sometimes.

My suggestion to use ιδιαίτερα is based on your sentence's structure. Possibilities depending on what you want to say are:

a. Τα αστέρια δείχνουν ότι νομίζω (not σκέφτομαι) ότι αυτή η λέξη ήταν ιδιαίτερα καλή. - The stars indicate that I think this word was particularly good.

b. Τα αστέρια δείχνουν ότι νομίζω ότι ειδικά αυτή η λέξη ήταν καλή. or Τα αστέρια δείχνουν ότι νομίζω ότι αυτή η λέξη ειδικά ήταν καλή. - The stars indicate that I think specifically this word was good. I hope it makes more sense now. I have to say this is way beyond anything you'd expect Duolingo to teach!

Seven. Time as καιρός refers to a long period that you wouldn't time with a clock; also an era, an epoch but its use is not limited to the past. If you'd been trying για καιρό to achieve something it implies a lot more time than a few minutes or hours. Time as ώρα is a shorter period. Examples: Πόση ώρα θα περάσει μέχρι να ψηφιστεί το νομοσχέδιο; - How much time will pass until the bill gets voted? (possibly poor translation...) This implies that the bill is under vote now and we're checking our watches, counting minutes/hours. Πόσος καιρός θα περάσει μέχρι να ψηφιστεί το νομοσχέδιο; This implies that this is a looong process, could take days, weeks, months. It could take forever!

Both καιρός and ώρα may mean a moment in time, but this is idiomatic: "Δεν είναι ώρα/καιρός για αστεία!" I suggest sticking with καιρός = weather and ώρα = time for the most part. (Did you know about the wiki Greek lessons? The information available there is not bad!)

Eight. Yes, basically, if something can be replaced with "that which" is a pronoun. που/πως/ότι are conjunctions meaning simply "that". Ό,τι is a pronoun and means "anything". Που can also be a pronoun. Full table of pronouns if you scroll to the end here (This is the junior high school grammar book, it has everything and even if reading the text is too much you could use the tables.)

Nine. I have found mistakes in Wiktionary before... In this case it is correct: των is plural genitive for both masculine and neuter. However it has been dropped and τους is used instead. See the second part of the table in 5.1 Προσωπικές αντωνυμίες in the grammar book.

Ten. Προστακτική, correct! Γράψιμο also means writing and, unlike γραφή which may have a more ιδιαίτερο ;) νοήμα when used (it's more literary), is the prevailing form.

And sorry about the frowny face, it's there now! :P

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https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin
wchargin
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Wow—there are so many great resources in this post! Thank you so much. I am definitely bookmarking these.

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https://www.duolingo.com/D_..
D_..
Mod
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This is very impressive! Congratulations!

A few mistakes overall, as others noted, impressive nonetheless!

If I may make some more suggestions:

  1. "πρέπει να αναπτυχθώ" πρέπει να αναπτύξω (however most people would say "να φτιάξω" (make) or "δημιουργήσω" (create)) "Αναπτυχθώ" is in passive voice.

  2. "Αποφάσισα να περιλαμβάνω" "Αποφάσισα να συμπεριλάβω": it should be in στιγμιαίος μέλλοντας, plus, (here it goes)

If you mean "to include" as in add more language options apart from English, but include English too, you can use either "περιλαμβάνω" or "συμπεριλαμβάνω" "να συμπεριλάβω".

While your thinking of using the verb "περιλαμβάνω" is correct, "περιλάβω" has a different meaning... True story. "περιλάβω" is actually the sujunctive of another verb and means to reprimand!

Depending on whether you've included English or not, your sentence becomes

Αποφάσισα να συμπεριλάβω κι άλλες γλώσσες εκτός από τα Αγγλικά

Αποφάσισα να συμπεριλάβω/χρησιμοποιήσω άλλες γλώσσες, εκτός από τα Αγγλικά

εκτός από τα Αγγλικά = εκτός των Αγγλικών (either is fine)

  1. You write "Τότε έπαιξα ένα παιχνίδι": since you played a game after you made the program it'd be better to use "Μετά..." Use "τότε"to refer to a time point that is clearly defined, for example if it has already been mentioned, but not as "after".

  2. Εγώ είμαι και οι δύο "Νίκος" και "Σοφία". Εγώ είμαι και o "Νίκος" και η "Σοφία" or Εγώ είμαι και οι δύο παίκτες, "Νίκος" και "Σοφία".

  3. Πριν από πρόσθεσα όλες τις μικρές λέξεις Πριν (να) προσθέσω...

  4. αυτή η λέξη ήταν ειδικά καλή αυτή η λέξη ήταν ιδιαίτερα καλή

  5. Για πολύ καιρό προσπάθησα να φτιάχνω "σιωπή" αλλά δεν βρήκε χωρώ :(
    Για πολλή ώρα προσπαθούσα να φτιάξω "σιωπή" αλλά δεν βρήκα χώρο :(

  6. Αυτά είναι τα μαθήματα ("lessons?") πως έμαθα Αυτά είναι τα μαθήματα ("lessons?") που έμαθα. or "τα οποία έμαθα"(Που is a relative pronoun, πως is not. Πως is a conjunction and it introduces secondary/dependent clauses but it cannot replace the object = lessons.)

  7. είναι πολύ σημαντικό να αυτά τα γράμματα είναι "ανοιχτά" (να υπάρξει χωρώ γύρο των) είναι πολύ σημαντικό αυτά τα γράμματα να είναι "ανοιχτά" (να υπάρχει χώρος γύρω τους). You mistyped the word order. You can also use υπάρχει, I think both would work, and "των" is technically correct, but sounds old-fashioned now. :)

  8. παρακαλώ διόρθωνε η γραφή μου! παρακαλώ διορθώστε το γράψιμό μου. Your request is addressed to many people, so switch to plural, also switch to προστκτική αορίστου that's practically the same with στιγμιαίος μέλλοντας in its endings and the object needs to be in accusative, which for the neutral is the same, but in your example should be "τη γραφή".

I know I've made many changes but please don't think your Greek is not in good shape. Everything makes sense and it's minor not major things you've missed.

I have to say I've also really enjoyed seeing the vocabulary you've used in your post. A lot of the time we (or I at least) seem to be using the same basic words in Greek to describe pretty much anything, like "make" instead of "develop" as I explain in the beginning of my post. So very well done!

I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress in the ENGR course when it becomes available! :)

Edit: The formatting does not like my numbering, I'm not in the mood to fight it right now..!

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https://www.duolingo.com/wchargin
wchargin
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  1. Forms of αναπτύξω. Yes, I really need to study the active and passive voices. I didn't notice the distinction until recently (I think you pointed it out to me!) and I hope to try again with "new eyes" when the en→gr course is released. Interesting that other verbs are more common! For software development specifically, which is a bit of a set phrase in English and for which "software making" or "software creation" don't really substitute, my dictionary indicates "ανάπτυξη λογισμικού", though perhaps this is too formal?
  2. I will have to read this more carefully and get back to you…what I'm taking away currently is that συμπεριλαμβάνω = περιλαμβάνω ≠ περιλάβω, and that the -λάβω ending is the indicative form of περιλάβω yet the subjunctive form of (συμ)περιλαμβάνω. So you're saying that I should have used the subjunctive in my text (makes sense!), which would have been "να συμπεριλάβω." But I didn't actually say "reprimand" by mistake, did I? that is, you were just warning me of a possible error? or no?

"If I may make some more suggestions…"—always! I appreciate it immensely and am very grateful for your patience and time.

  1. So (←) this is something that I know I'm not doing quite right: I didn't mean "τότε" as "then," but rather as "so": as in "Something happened. So I responded." That is, it's not temporal, but rather contextual. I used to use έτσι for this, but I got the impression that that was incorrect (I think I saw it used as "thus," which is what I mean, but the "thus" was as an adjective ("it looks thus")/adverb ("proceed thus"), not a conjunction ("thus, …")). So (←) then I thought for some reason that τότε was better, but perhaps it is not. I use this construction quite frequently in both written and spoken English (I speak as I write)—is there a common equivalent in Greek?
  2. Okay!
  3. Interesting! I wouldn't have guessed that.
  4. Would you mind explaining the difference between ειδικά and ιδιαίτερα? The sentences that I always remember from Duolingo are "Μου αρέσουν τα φρούτα, ειδικά τα μήλα" and "Αυτό το φόρεμα είναι ιδιαίτερο." The primary difference that I see is that ειδικά is used as an adverb while ιδιαίτερο is an adjective; in terms of meaning, they seem mostly the same, as something stands out from the rest. What gives?
  5. πολύ καιρό/πολλή ώρα: Very interesting! I also remember "Τον ξέρω για πολύ καιρό" (which interests me for other reasons—namely, the use of ξέρω, but I digress). Any usage notes? I imagine the προσπαθούσα is continuing past…makes sense! And yep, my subjunctive on φτιάξω was missing, and I conjugated βρήκα wrong. (My excuse to myself is that the conjugations in Spanish are exactly backward…argh!) You forgot my frowny face :(
  6. Okay! I've come across this before, so I need to be more careful with που/πως/ότι. (I think I get the difference from ό,τι, though—I think of this one as "that which" or Spanish's "lo que".)
  7. Could you elaborate on the old-fashionedness of των? Wiktionary, the fount of all knowledge, says that the third-person plural neuter genitive is των, and τους is only for masculine plural. What's going on?
  8. Προστακτική αορίστου, yes? The plural makes sense, and the accusative makes sense. What is γράψιμο?

Trust me, I only appreciate the corrections, major and minor alike! Truly, thank you very much.

Vocabulary has always been my weak point with Spanish: I'm totally comfortable with the grammar (or at least I was three years ago…) but I hate having to stop reading every few sentences to look something up. Newscasters are fine; novels are less so. So I try to use "interesting" vocabulary when possible :)

I, too, eagerly await the course!

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