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  5. "You are women, we are men."

"You are women, we are men."

Translation:Wy jesteście kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyznami.

March 16, 2016

46 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coarsened

so frustrating! just for the sake of learning there should be consistency in the method. Be awesome if a good teacher came and made sense of the course, there are so many crazy sentences appear for beginners, with no clear progression. While the idea of duolingo is great - the lack of logical progression is crazy frustrating. Spelling this long sentence and next translating krab. I mean, seriously?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Euhan1

I think the problem consists largely of that the instructions are mainly missing in this "tree" in conjunction with them not being accessible in the "app-versions".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/serkinrowa

Agreed! Moreover, the clues should connect with one another through conjugation. For example, the clue for "we are" has three different conjugation possibilities and so does the clue for "men". If they were linked, in the fashion of a row, the top possibility for "we are" should link with the top option for "men". However, they do not. Frustrating.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcoDelpo

yeh but, i dont think we are here to learn how to say these specific sentences but instead learn the rules of the language through them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cosmopoiesis

I used to feel the same way. But after a while I began to research each time I didn't understand a conjugation until I knew why the word was the way that it was. And whenever I couldn't figure it out the community had never let me down. I still make a ton of mistakes but it's starting to make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margotgm

Surely there is no need for 'my' in this sentence as the form of the verb indicates 'we'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Actually, normally there is no need, but here - well, there's a contrast. You are X, we are Y. I'd say that this is a rare occasion when not using the pronoun would seem strange.

We use pronouns to emphasize, and I do see the need to emphasize here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mim_Fox

Why then is 'Wy' not needed in the first part of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Well, in the first part of the sentence you don't have the contrast, it comes in the second one. Although I would recommend using it in the first part as well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rabf369

I came with the same question myself. I've been getting used to drop the pronouns whenever they are implied in the verb, so it took me by surprise that "Jesteście kobietami, jesteśmy mężczyznami" was wrong.

Let me see if I got this straight: while this form is grammatically valid, it's commendable for us to use the pronouns when we are dealing with two separate groups of subjects in a single sentence?

Thank you in advance for your help. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JelenaBraum

Actually, I don't get this either. I am Czech, the languages should be similar (we work with the verbs the same way), and I would never use the pronoun in the second sentence if I weren't using it in the first one. Either I would say "jste ženy, jsme muži", which sounds like a grammatical phrase for the sole purpose of learning, but it is not wrong, or I am underlying the pronouns and making contrast, and then I would say "vy jste ženy, my jsme muži". Informally, I would drop the second verb, and then I would use the pronoun, but I would also use the pronoun in the first sentence then: "Vy jste ženy, my muži". (this sounds like dividing a group of people in two teams to play sports. We are reds, you are greens, My jste červení, vy zelení.) "Jste ženy, my jsme muži" is the weirdest of all possibilities, I cannot come up with a single situation where I would use the expression in this form, and I sincerely doubt its different in Polish. And I am always failing this question, because I am translating it as the very grammatical phrase it actually is (like most of them at this stage of learning) while forgetting duolingo wants to make some weird point or whatever :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Yes. Technically it's not wrong, but as the sentence is very clearly focused on the contrast, the pronouns seem necessary. At least the second one.

EDIT: I can't answer to JelenaLenk's comment, but let's just say that what she wrote about "a grammatical phrase for the sole purpose of learning" has persuaded me. I really don't love that option, but "Jesteście kobietami, jesteśmy mężczyznami" will be accepted now.

The version with just the second pronoun isn't exactly great for me as well. I would recommend the one with both pronouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonoAmerican

It's hard to believe in a matter of two lessons we went from 'Fish eat bread' to this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmopolita61

I love the Venus and Mars sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/margotgm

that is crazy . I can't work this out at all. We have not used jestescie or jestesmy nor kobietami or mezczyzami up to this point. so what is the rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte22731

also why do we use kobietami here and not kobiety?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlotte22731

Can someone clarify for a beginner, like myself, whether we always need to use the 'wy' and 'my' etc. before the verbs, in this case 'jesteście' and 'jesteśmy', like we do in french for example, or we can use them optionally, like in spanish? Duolingo has been a bit inconsistent and it has confused me a bit.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhillipBest

If you look at some of the other posts in section, Jellei pointed out that the pronouns here are used to emphasise contrast in this particular sentence. While it's not wrong to remove them, it sounds unusual in this context, and so it is being marked wrong so that this fact isn't overlooked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PawelKowal234800

In formal speech subjects cannot be omitted. In informal speech subject can be omitted if is known or can be easily reconstructed (and usually is). In this case:

  • "Wy jesteście kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyznami": this is perfectly valid

  • "jesteście kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyznami". this is also OK in informal speech.

  • "wy jesteście kobietami, jesteśmy mężczyznami": missing "my" is very confusing, it takes some time to reconstruct subject in the middle of sentence.

  • "jesteście kobietami, jesteśmy mężczyznami": reconstruction of two subjects is even harder. This sentence is very confusing but still valid


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenSuddjian

I misread the sentence at first as having the word “and” in between the phrases. So I put in “i” in my translation and it said that “a” was correct. What does “a” mean? I suppose it’s a conjunction...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

"a" is the variant of "and" that shows contrast. Yeah, technically there's no "and" in the given sentence (so there's no "a" in the main answer), but it feels so natural here, that it wouldn't make much sense to reject it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaFeKiS

Czemu nie: Panie są kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyznami.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Upl1fted

Jesteś kobietą, jestem mężczyzną.. To więcej niż gra. (c) Nowoczesne Rozmowy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JaniceSchl1

It's free. Babble and Rosetta Stone are horribly expensive. And since i haven't taken either course, I don't know if their teaching methods are different.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heilswahrheit

I think Rosetta Stone is garbage, personally speaking. Only Clozemaster has impressed as a compliment to Duo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heilswahrheit

Why can't I omit the pronouns? I thought only the third person pronouns were a must?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

Even third person pronouns are not a must (you have context usually, after all, you know that 'he' is 'Adam' and 'she' is 'Joanne'), although in this course very few sentences are presented to the learners without those pronouns, true. A version without them is always accepted though.

When you actually do need pronouns are sentences with Formal You (otherwise you'd arrive at 'some known 3rd person subject' rather than Formal You) and sentences like this one - where the subject changes in the middle of the sentence. At least "my" is required - without it, the form "jesteśmy" would appear completely out of the blue. "wy" is highly recommendable to strengthen the contrast. Also some sentences with just one subject aim to show some contrast so the pronoun should also be used there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heilswahrheit

Thanks for the clarification.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mejarbejar

"ty jesteś kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyźnami" was my answer... I don't know if I got it wrong because there is essentially something wrong in grammar and declension OR if it was because of my small typo of "mężczyŹnami" instead of "mężczyZnami"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mejarbejar

Coming to think, of it.. maybe it's because I used "ty jesteś" instead "wy jesteście" because it's women and not woman.. someone please confirm or deconfirm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

You are right, that is the mistake you have made:

You are a woman, I am... - Ty jesteś kobietą, ja jestem...
You are women, we... - Wy jesteście kobietami, my jesteśmy...

This type of sentence shows strong contrast between two subjects: "Please, do not put us both in the same category, we are different":

You are an apple, I am an orange - TY jesteś jabłkiem, ja pomarańczą You are women, we are... - Wy jesteście kobietami, my mężczyznami

You get your point by using pronouns in both parts of the sentence.
The contrast is so strong... you can actually drop the second verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolm7777777

i didnt think the pronouns were necessary. are they? or is the program being picky?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Y.Rtp

I think there is should be mężchyźnami and not mężczyznami. Ź is correct. No?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

nominative - Mianownik (kto? co?) TO (jest) mężczyzna/TO (są) mężczyźni
instrumental - Narzędnik (kim? czym?) JEST mężczyzną/SĄ mężczyznami


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariesaKow

So why is it kobietami and mezczyznami instead of kobiety and mezczyzni?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yola448704

There is a major difference between English and Polish:

English verbs "to be" and "to become" refer back to the subject
(predicate nominative)

Polish verb "to be" - BYĆ refers "forward", to the direct object,
which needs the instrumental case

you are women (nominative) - JESTEŚCIE kobietami (instrumental)
we are men (nominative) - JESTEŚMY mężczyznami (instrumental)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/patriciawo972030

I wish there was an explanation of the change of noun endings. I dont understand why the specific ending is used


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

-ami is an Instrumental ending for plural nouns.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ludicousLucas

Why not ty jesteś kobietami, my jesteśmy mężczyznami?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mim_Fox

Jesteś is for singular “you are”. Jesteście is plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hot-Doggy

Why is "Wy to kobiety, my to mężczyźni" wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jellei

I just answered a similar question a minute ago :D We consider using the 'to' construction after a personal pronoun to be really clumsy. I wrote:

Let's take a more probable sentence: You are a man. I googled "ty jesteś mężczyzną" and got 23 000 results. Then I checked "ty to mężczyzna" and although at first it gave quite a big number of results, going to the 2nd page actually shows that the number of results is... 11. And a few of them aren't even exactly what I was trying to search for.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AggieA1

Pronouns are optional ! What the heck. Sometimes it's ok, other times it counts it as an error


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alik1989

I wish reading the comment section before posting a comment weren't optional...

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