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https://www.duolingo.com/ClionaOR

north or south wales?

ClionaOR
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Just wondering if the Welsh on Duolingo is typical of North or South Wales?

2 years ago

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/psionpete
psionpete
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,I believe it tries to teach both dialects.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ClionaOR
ClionaOR
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thanks for that.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
ibisc
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Duo does not really get into any of the 4-5 main dialects in Wales in any depth. It has a few examples from north-west Wales, such as using mi more often at the start of a statements and it shows a few pronunciation variations such as dach chi and isio (for eisiau) from north-west Wales. It introduces moyn as a verb-noun for 'wanting' which is common in some parts of south and south-west Wales. Hogan for girl in north-west Wales.

Pretty standard, middle of the road Welsh, really, and things that you will meet all over Wales in any case, especially in the media.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ClionaOR
ClionaOR
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i hadn't realised there were so many variations. Welsh gets more and more interesting!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ieuan-Jones
Ieuan-Jones
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And alongside all the variation in words, words which are spelt the same will have variation in pronunciation. People in the South of Wales alone can't even agree on how my name is supposed to be pronounced, and that's often just described as "one dialect".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gwyn200

I am following the Wlpan Welsh Course (North Wales) and started duolingo to help me with this but I am getting very confused as South Wales is mixed in with North Wales Welsh so I keep getting things wrong. Very confusing indeed!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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You should never get things wrong as the Duolingo course should accept all variants of Welsh.

(And if you don't understand a word in a Welsh-to-English translation exercise, it's one that you may encounter "in the wild" in Wales so one that you should be able to recognise anyway, even if it's not one you might use yourself or one that's common in the area of Wales you are focussing on.)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
ibisc
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Well, it wont accept all variants - there are far too many dialect variations for it to do that! However, it will cope with the common variations taught in Welsh for Adults courses such as Wlpan and whatever is taught in schools these days.

If there is a particular word that you are being taught that Duo does not accept (geneth for 'girl', say, or crwt for 'boy', ┼Ěch chi'n iawn? or whatever) then just use the 'report' button to ask for it to be added.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JeffA2
JeffA2
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I've noticed that there is a certain amount of mixing of dialects that is a little confusing. For example, 'hogyn yw e' is weird because 'hogyn' is an northern word, but 'yw e' is southern. The same question (a multiple choice one) also offered 'bachgen ydy o' which again is mixed, but in the opposite direction.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ibisc
ibisc
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Apparently 'dialect mixing' is becoming more common, especially among young people who have been in Welsh-medium secondary, further and higher education. Because they often travel to the place of education outside their normal dialect area, they get to hear other dialects and can then end up mixing them.

Radio Cymru and S4C may have a similar influence perhaps, as might travelling to work in different areas.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ieuan-Jones
Ieuan-Jones
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Even in Welsh Second Language GCSE we learn a mixture of dialects, instead of just the one local to us; we were taught allan, eisiau, e and short-verbs instead of the wnes i form all alongside eachother without being shown the alternatives.

From what I've heard this is partly down to lots of Welsh teachers in the South coming from the heartland areas, and taking their dialects along with them; how much truth there is in that I'm don't know, but it sounds plausible.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mizinamo
mizinamo
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That sounds like an example of the fallacy that there are exactly two dialect areas and a border that when you cross it, everyone switches from "only south words" to "only north words" - instead of multiple dialects and gradual shifts in vocabulary usage, which is what I've heard the situation described as.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JeffA2
JeffA2
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Sure, the dialect situation is not binary. But there are things that you are more likely or less likely to hear together. I'd be really surprised if someone whose go-to word for boy was 'hogyn' also used 'e' instead of 'o'. If you told me that there is a valley somewhere, or some string of villages, where they do, I'd believe you. But it rings strange to me.

I probably should have phrased my statement as a question. I really like how the course shows dialectical varieties through the multiple choice questions. It is brilliant. But I wonder if each sentence in those questions is a self-contained statement that some real-life Welsh person would be likely to say, or if maybe just individual words are switched out for a dialectical alternate.

2 years ago